Author Topic: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)  (Read 130416 times)

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #120 on: July 29, 2010, 04:28:29 PM »
Well...Minny always travels with her jewels too.The box she carried out of Russia were the ones she wore often. I think Helen was quite lucky not to leave her jewels behind despite her mother being there to look after it.

Alexander1917

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2010, 05:28:49 PM »
it's also nice to see, that some jewels left russia with the right owner.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2010, 05:51:29 PM »
Indeed. Grand Duchess Helen had agreat collection of jewels, but only a portion came down to her daughters, the rest were sold for living or charity. She was the only one that have a home (built by Russian money) outside Russia. Olga Alexandrovna, Xenia, Marie Paulovna the younger were all homeless.

Alexander1917

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #123 on: July 30, 2010, 05:13:50 AM »
...and the empress had Hvidore.. you forget.

I know that she inheried much from her mother.. also the wounderful vladimir tiara, which go on display in dis years BP exhib.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #124 on: July 30, 2010, 08:34:59 AM »
Hvidore was jointly owned with Queen Alexandra. It is strange that the Romanovs with so much money did not own homes all over Europe but to only rent ? The Russian millionarires now has homes all over the world. Guess they are much more clever than those Grand Dukes eh ? :-)

Indeed.It was high adventure that got Miechen's jewels out. It was one of the rare pleasures given to the once proud Grand Duchess then eating the humble bread of exile. I think that mother and daughter were quite close, even though they did have tiffs (one of them was over Miss Fox, whom Helen was quite close and fond of).

ashdean

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #125 on: July 30, 2010, 11:12:34 AM »
Indeed. Grand Duchess Helen had agreat collection of jewels, but only a portion came down to her daughters, the rest were sold for living or charity. She was the only one that have a home (built by Russian money) outside Russia. Olga Alexandrovna, Xenia, Marie Paulovna the younger were all homeless.
Xenia was not totally homeless she had a house in Paris where she could have settled at least temporaily....interestingly Helen was not able to live in her home (though she could derive a rental income from it) because the Greek royal family were exilesd.

Offline violetta

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #126 on: July 30, 2010, 05:33:54 PM »
their union was a love match though nicholas wasn`t rich.he wasn`t to succeed his father.it wasn`t a prestigious match,greek monarchy was young and shaky. i wonder why elena`s parents couldn`t marry her off earlier.why they were unable to find their only daughter a more well-off husband and a heir to the throne.well,had she married max of baden, her husband would have abdicated in 1918. the belgians also suffered a lot together with their king who married elizabeth of bavaria though maria pavlovna planed her daughter to marrry leopold of belgium.
elena was beautiful.she was rich.she came from the romanov dyasty,she was a good catch. why on earth her mother failed in her search for a "better" husband? it seems strange to me that she didn`t seem attractive enough for european princes and dukes. though her marriage to nicholas of greece was happy i wonder why she had so many problems finding a husband.any ideas?   

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #127 on: July 30, 2010, 06:01:59 PM »
Rank maybe, since the Russians though they were better then everyone else, "God, Tsar, Russian Grand Dukes then the rest!" how she was even bright up to believe.

I'm surprised that Maria Pavlovna didn't find an Austrian Archduke since they are styled "Imperial and Royal Highness" (there MANY of them, since the Hapsburgs bread like rabbits) as a husband for her daughter? maybe none were available at the time, married, or too young?..

darius

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2010, 06:06:11 PM »
Perhaps they just didn´t want to come too close to Helen´s mother.  Her rather overbearing manner was probably well known throughout the Gotha.  Helen herselfmust have had a rather strong personality which didn´t make her many friends.  Wasn´t it King George VI who said during the WWII exile of the Greek monarchy that he would accept anybody except his brother´s mother-in-law (Helen)?

Offline violetta

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #129 on: July 30, 2010, 06:17:43 PM »
Rank maybe, since the Russians though they were better then everyone else, "God, Tsar, Russian Grand Dukes then the rest!" how she was even bright up to believe.

I'm surprised that Maria Pavlovna didn't find an Austrian Archduke since they are styled "Imperial and Royal Highness" (there MANY of them, since the Hapsburgs bread like rabbits) as a husband for her daughter? maybe none were available at the time, married, or too young?..


As far as I know marriage between orthodox Russian grand duchess and catholic hapsburgs was not even taken into account since the middle of the 19th century. in 1799 alexandra pavlovna maried a austrian duke, a hungarian palatine.she wasn`t very much loved by the hapsburgs due to her othodox faith  as well as resmblance to her aut, the archduke`s first wife, nee the princess of wuerttemberg. some feared that orthodox grand duchess would cause unrest among national minorties. the same situation occured with olga nikolaevna, nikolay 1`s daughter. metternich strongly opposed marriage between olga ikoalevna and archduke anton on the grounds of religious incompatibility.also, metternich was afraid that orthodox grand duchess would become a sort of symbol for orthodox minorities living in hapsburg empire.

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2010, 12:17:55 AM »
their union was a love match though nicholas wasn`t rich.he wasn`t to succeed his father.it wasn`t a prestigious match,greek monarchy was young and shaky. i wonder why elena`s parents couldn`t marry her off earlier.why they were unable to find their only daughter a more well-off husband and a heir to the throne.well,had she married max of baden, her husband would have abdicated in 1918. the belgians also suffered a lot together with their king who married elizabeth of bavaria though maria pavlovna planed her daughter to marrry leopold of belgium.
elena was beautiful.she was rich.she came from the romanov dyasty,she was a good catch. why on earth her mother failed in her search for a "better" husband? it seems strange to me that she didn`t seem attractive enough for european princes and dukes. though her marriage to nicholas of greece was happy i wonder why she had so many problems finding a husband.any ideas?  

There is some info on it in the 2 threads on her Russian family.

Here is what GD Konstantin (KR) had to say:

24 May 1900
Iheard from Minnie about Maria Pavlovna's efforts to marry off her daughter Elena. After the failure with Max [of Baden], they are desperate to find another husband. Their choice fell on Albert of Belgium, but he did not seem particularly keen. M.P. then wrote to the Emperor, asking him to invite the King of Belgium to Peterhof for the summer, while Elena wrote to the young Empres, declaring her whole future depended on this invitation. At this point Albert of Belgium announced his engagement to a Bavarian princess, and Michen telegraphed the Emperor that there was no longer any need to invite the King.

19 June 1902
Mitia went to Krasnoe for the Ismailovsky celebrations and returned with the unexpected and joyful news of the engagement of Nicky of Greece to Elena Vladimirovna. Two years ago, when Elena caught Nicky's eye, her mother Maria Pavlovna made sure he was told not to count on Elena because, as the third son of a king, he was not a suitable match for her. Now Maria Pavlovna has had to change her mind, as her search for other suitors for her daughter has been in vain.

I had written this back in 2008:

n Camera and the Tsars I think it just states he changed his mind. The Vladimirs were NOT happy--it's embarrassing enough if it would happen today, but back then for a man to break off an engagement was considered very dishonorable and also would've reflected on the woman as somehow being 'not worth' the marriage (ridiculous I know). [I find it ironic though that Miechen threw over another man to try and snare Vladimir, though you can't argue that it was a much better match!]  KR recorded in 1900 that he'd heard from Minnie about Miechen's efforts to marry of Helen and how they were 'desperate' to find her another husband. Albert of Belgium  didn't seem interested. Miechen then personally wrote the Emperor asking him to invite the King of Belgium to Peterhof and Helen wrote the Empress saying her 'whole future depended' on this invitation. But Albert announced his engagement and that put an end to that.  Just a few months later KR would write that Nicholas of Greece went riding with Helen and there was mutual liking but Miechen 'rebuked' her daughter for this since Nicholas should NOT expect to marry her daughter since he was neither in line for a throne nor wealthy. KR felt that 'she and Nicky..go together perfectly. I heard that Miechen dreams of marrying her daughter to the Heir, Elena's first cousin, imaginging that this would be permitted.' In fact, it would be 2 more years before their engagement would be announced. I guess that Helen pulled a 'Beatrice' on her mother and stood her ground for the man she wanted (esp. since Miechen had made sure that Nicholas was told that he basically didn't have a chance with her daughter since he wasn't a 'suitable' match). Miechen had to change her mind under her daughter's determination to marry Nicholas (god for her!) and her search for other suitors had, KR wrote, 'been in vain'. I find this romantic as it was a true love match since Nicholas really didn't have anything to offer beyond himself and Helen was the granddaughter of the Tsar and immensely wealthy. Plus, it couldn't have been easy to withstand an onslaught by MP.




They met when Queen Olga (being a Russian GDss) would visit Russia. Helen had been tossed over by Max of Baden (their engagement pictures had even been taken). Miechen was in despair and anxiously looking around for a suitable husband (she looked at the future Albert I of Belgium but he chose Elisabeth of Bavaria). Soon after KR wrote that 'Nicky went for a long ride with Elena, whom he likes, as she does him but Maria Pavlovna rebuked her daughter for this, and told Georgy [George I of Greece presumably] that Nicky could not expect to marry Elena, being neither a future King, nor having any fortune. She and Nicky, however, go together perfectly. I heard that Miechen dreams of marrying her daughter to the Heir, Elena's first cousin, imagining that this would be permitted.' This was in 1900. [I presume by the Heir they meant Misha?] Miechen stood in the way though for another 2 years until in 1902 KR was able to write of the 'unexpected and joyful news' of the engagement. 'Two years ago, when Elena caught Nicky's eye, her mother...made sure he was told not to count on Elena' because in MP's view he wasn't suitable for a GDss who was the only daughter of an immensely rich Grand Duke. Now, however, she had to give in as 'her search for other suitors...has been in vain.' So it seems like a love match--Elena and Nicky must've really wanted to marry each other to withstand Miechen!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:05:51 AM by Svetabel »
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #131 on: August 01, 2010, 09:55:37 PM »
It is a love match and they stood by each other despite the many exiles they went through. Nicky was evidently faithful to Helen unlike some of his brothers.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2010, 08:42:03 PM »
Nicholas with his mother-in-law in Contrexeville (where Marie would later be buried)

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2010, 10:36:17 PM »
Quite a rare picture. Where did you find it ?

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Prince Nicholas & Grand Duchess Helen (Elena)
« Reply #134 on: August 11, 2010, 04:42:13 PM »

1903. Standing L to R: Prince George, Crown princess Sophie, Prince Andrew, Princess Alice, Grand Duke George of Russia, and Prince Nicholas of Greece. Sitting: Crown Prince Constantine (holding prince Paul), Queen Olga , Princess Helen, King George, Princess Marie holding Princess Nina and Xenia, Princess Helena holding Princess Olga. On the floor: Prince Alexander, Prince Christopher,and Prince George.