George 2nd Marquess of Milford Haven (Battenberg) and Nadejda (Nada) de Torby

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes. Nadejda de Torby, who was a lesbian and lived a very interesting life. Thiat is a fact and not gossip. The Duchess of Windsor was convinced that Dickie was gay, at least bisexual and that has been confirmed by many sources.

[Marlene]

Oh do shut up, Eric.  There is no hard evidence that Nada was a lesbian or that she had a sexual relationship with Gloria Vanderbilt.  The ONLY source for that was the maid's testimony, and her evidence was thrown out with a judge's ruling, which I posted above.  There is no other evidence or reliable source that Nada was involved with other woman.  She certainly had sex twice with her husband.  She *may* have been a lesbian but there is no hard evidence.   Dickie was certainly not gay or bi-sexual.  There is no evidence that he had affairs with men, but he certainly had affairs with women, and had a long-standing affair with a particular woman. 
The Duchess of Windsor, who certainly had a relationship with an American gay man, was hardly in a position to know about Mountbatten. She barely knew him, and Dickie's relationship with David soured after the abdication. 

[LisaDavidson]

Oh do shut up, Eric.  There is no hard evidence that Nada was a lesbian or that she had a sexual relationship with Gloria Vanderbilt.  The ONLY source for that was the maid's testimony, and her evidence was thrown out with a judge's ruling, which I posted above.  There is no other evidence or reliable source that Nada was involved with other woman.  She certainly had sex twice with her husband.  She *may* have been a lesbian but there is no hard evidence.   Dickie was certainly not gay or bi-sexual.  There is no evidence that he had affairs with men, but he certainly had affairs with women, and had a long-standing affair with a particular woman. 
The Duchess of Windsor, who certainly had a relationship with an American gay man, was hardly in a position to know about Mountbatten. She barely knew him, and Dickie's relationship with David soured after the abdication. 

Thank you, Marlene.

Eric, Marlene is the acknowledged expert on the descendants of Queen Victoria. Her word on this subject is sufficient.

Kindly stop repeating the same gossip and innuendo as fact.

[Marlene]

Thank you, Lisa

Nada may have played for both teams    but unless a historiian comes up with letters or actual documents regarding Nada's lifestyle (and she was hardly responsible - her sister largely cared for Tatiana), but the discussion of being a lesbian is based largely on the Vanderbilt trial - based on a maid's testimony.   Gloria was exonerated on the "sensational" charges - so if Gloria was exonerated so was Nada. 

[Eric_Lowe]

Well I will not shut up. I is very rude to say that top anyone. I do have reliable sourses on this subject. Marlene had been wrong before, she said Baby Bee had an affair with Alfonso XIII and knifed Queen Ena behind her back. I know all along Bee & Ena remained close friends and Bee was loyalty to the end to Ena. That is why I do not accept any "excpect" that stand to be challenged.

[Svetabel]

I do have reliable sourses on this subject. Marlene had been wrong before, she said Baby Bee had an affair with Alfonso XIII and knifed Queen Ena behind her back. I know all along Bee & Ena remained close friends and Bee was loyalty to the end to Ena. That is why I do not accept any "excpect" that stand to be challenged.

If you DO have reliable sources, as you said, DO tell about them. Your usual way is hinting and not giving these "reliable sources".

Also Beatrice /Alfonso XIII "affair" is not the subject of this topic.

[Marlene]

I repeat my statement: Oh do shut up

In my article in Royalty Digest about Baby Bee, I wrote:  "Beatrice feigned contiinued friendship with Ena, alkthough Ena's biographer, Gerard Noel, states that Beatrice was a ring leader in court intrigue against the Queen. Sheflirted openly with the King, and much to Ena's dismay, she became one of the King's confidantes.
"Several writers have suggested that Beatrice was one of the king's mistresses; but while she conspired with Spanish noblemen in procuring mistresses for the King, she herself did not become his lover."

So in other words, I did not write that Baby Beel Slept with Alfonso and I said the statements were based on what Ena's own biographer said.

Well I will not shut up. I is very rude to say that top anyone. I do have reliable sourses on this subject. Marlene had been wrong before, she said Baby Bee had an affair with Alfonso XIII and knifed Queen Ena behind her back. I know all along Bee & Ena remained close friends and Bee was loyalty to the end to Ena. That is why I do not accept any "excpect" that stand to be challenged.

[Marlene]

Svetabel, Eric would not know a true fact if it hit him in the face.  Moreover, he totally ignores the actual court testimony and the judge's ruling!

I do have reliable sourses on this subject. Marlene had been wrong before, she said Baby Bee had an affair with Alfonso XIII and knifed Queen Ena behind her back. I know all along Bee & Ena remained close friends and Bee was loyalty to the end to Ena. That is why I do not accept any "excpect" that stand to be challenged.

If you DO have reliable sources, as you said, DO tell about them. Your usual way is hinting and not giving these "reliable sources".

Also Beatrice /Alfonso XIII "affair" is not the subject of this topic.

[Eric_Lowe]

The last time. The fact that Marlene repeated what was published did not make her unchallenged. Both John Wimbles and Ricardo Matoes who had read Missy's correspondence to Bee and knew about Ena's correspondence told early on that Ena & Bee were "friends for life". Do you think Ena would be friends to Bee if she knew her friend had betrayed her ? From information now it seems that Bee refused to sleep with Alfonso that made him treated her and Ali shabbily. I agree that this is not the place to discuess Bee or Ena. But the fact is that no information is not "full proof". As for the information on Nada, I did talk to a few people in London who knew about both her and facts about Dickie. It is still a raw nerve and the truth cannot be told publicly yet. As for a judge's ruling, I do not think it has anything to do with the truth. Judgements get overturned everyday. I rest my case.

[LisaDavidson]

The last time. The fact that Marlene repeated what was published did not make her unchallenged. Both John Wimbles and Ricardo Matoes who had read Missy's correspondence to Bee and knew about Ena's correspondence told early on that Ena & Bee were "friends for life". Do you think Ena would be friends to Bee if she knew her friend had betrayed her ? From information now it seems that Bee refused to sleep with Alfonso that made him treated her and Ali shabbily. I agree that this is not the place to discuess Bee or Ena. But the fact is that no information is not "full proof". As for the information on Nada, I did talk to a few people in London who knew about both her and facts about Dickie. It is still a raw nerve and the truth cannot be told publicly yet. As for a judge's ruling, I do not think it has anything to do with the truth. Judgements get overturned everyday. I rest my case.

Eric - since you cannot present facts about the Marchiness' sexuality, do stop discussing it. Gossip and innuendo may be okay for you, but not for serious historians. Stop attacking Marlene. I cannot tell you how many times I've wanted to say "shut up" when people play fast and loose with the facts.

Enough.

[Marlene]

Thank you Lisa.  If Eric had read the testimony and the judge's ruling, he might have learned something.  As I stated many times, Nada may have been bi-sexual, but there is no hard evidence.  As for Bee and Ena - their friendship evolved - but it was not easy for Bee or Ena in the first years of their marriages.  This is evident in the book about Bee and Ena, to which I provided information.

[Eric_Lowe]

I am not attacking but being attacked here. I never told people to shut up. People should respect other people's views. Isn't it ? Anyway one day I will publish what I learn from others, but I am pretty sure it may not please everybody. But after all that is what democrasy is all about ? As Marlene did not say I was lying but need hard evidence. But in terms of hard evidence it may be difficult, unless the lover tells it. Yet even then it may not be enough, after all it all happen behind closed doors.

[Svetabel]

It is still a raw nerve and the truth cannot be told publicly yet.

So, if it cannot told publicly - stop flaming here the discussion that leads to nowhere.

You all can agree to disagree, and I repeat - don't divert the topic into Beatrice/Alfonso discussion.

[Kalafrana]

For the record, on the subject of Lord Mountbatten's sexuality, I am aware that there were rumours of homosexual liaisons circulating in the Royal Navy, but have no way of judging their reliability. On the other hand, I knew Mountbatten's long-time confidant, Vice Admiral Sir Ronald Brockman, and he was adamant that Mountbatten had an active heterosexual love life.

Ann

[Svetabel]

For the record, on the subject of Lord Mountbatten's sexuality, I am aware that there were rumours of homosexual liaisons circulating in the Royal Navy, but have no way of judging their reliability. On the other hand, I knew Mountbatten's long-time confidant, Vice Admiral Sir Ronald Brockman, and he was adamant that Mountbatten had an active heterosexual love life.

Ann

Here's a topic about Nadejda de Torby!