DNA RESOURCEs: Romanov-related scientific papers

[daveK]

I am still wondering what the source of this information is (the "10 to 25 generations").

It's not 10-25 generations.
One nucleotide changes very rarely.
It's 6000 years for 800bp region (HVI+II).  
12,000 years for 400 bp region (HVI only).

From Gill Paper.
Gill P, Ivanov PL, Kimpton C, Piercy R, Benson N, Tully G, Evett I, Hagelberg E, Sullivan K.   Identification of the remains of the Romanov family by DNA analysis.  
Nature Genetics. 1994 Feb;6(2):130-5.

[daveK]

Here is from the Gill Paper 1994. He used Bayesan method, which I kept talking about.  

[daveK]

Bear and others.

Denise created the EXCELLENT thread called FS and serial killer. Thanks Denise! that's great!! Please post your opinion there to discuss Grossmann case. It is a very intriguing subject. But it doesn't fit here, as this DNA threads was made for people to post original resource and analysis.  

[rskkiya]

I'm sure that this solution will make you feel very comfortable.  Let's sweep it all under the rug and forget how some of you treated someone who tried to belong here.

WHAT???
   Penny -- I'll freely admit that I have not been following this thread very carefully, but what sort of comment is that?  
   Perhaps you are feeling a bit 'put upon' and I am sure that we all - no matter if we're historians, 'popular authors' or simply amateurs, have at one time or another felt that way, but the tone of this comment is rather unworthy of you and it does not reflect your past detailed research in the best light!
Having made numerous 'off the cuff" statements in the past that I have later regretted -  I make this suggestion hoping that you will avoid my personal mistakes...

rskkiya

[daveK]

Here is Gill paper 1995, so called "AA paper".    

Gill P, Kimpton C, Aliston-Greiner R, Sullivan K, Stoneking M, Melton T, Nott J, Barritt S, Roby R, Holland M, et al.    
Establishing the identity of Anna Anderson Manahan.  
Nature  Genetics. 1995 Jan;9(1):9-10.  




Here are four points I want to make.
1)      As we see in acknowledgement section, hair sample came directly from Peter Kurth.
2)      In this paper in 1994, the random match probability between Carl Maucher and Anna Anderson was calculated "less than one in 300". However, as I mentioned before and below, using all data available in 2004, the number calculated by me is “one in 9000”.
3)      For unknown reason, Peter Gill didn’t present HVII region. See the figure of mitochondria DNA.
4)      Peter Gill didn’t incorporate the Bayesian inference to his calculation, which I think he should have. By my calculation with Bayesian inference, the posterior odds for AA=FS is 1 to 1,000,000.

[Denise]

Can we please keep this thread for DNA research, folks?  I know a lot has happened, but let's try to get back to topic.  

[rskkiya]

So sorry, I promise to stay on topic!

[daveK]

Here is CRS, cambridge reference sequence. HVI region. From OxfordAncestor web site.

TEXT

ATTCTAATTT AAACTATTCT CTGTTCTTTC ATGGGGAAGC AGATTTGGGT
ACCACCCAAG TATTGACTCA CCCATCAACA ACCGCTATGT ATTTCGTACA
TTACTGCCAG CCACCATGAA TATTGTACGG TACCATAAAT ACTTGACCAC
CTGTAGTACA TAAAAACCCA ATCCACATCA AAACCCCCTC CCCATGCTTA
CAAGCAAGTA CAGCAATCAA CCCTCAACTA TCACACATCA ACTGCAACTC
CAAAGCCACC CCTCACCCAC TAGGATACCA ACAAACCTAC CCACCCTTAA
CAGTACATAG TACATAAAGC CATTTACCGT ACATAGCACA TTACAGTCAA
ATCCCTTCTC GTCCCCATGG ATGACCCCCC TCAGATAGGG GTCCCTTGAC

[daveK]

Seven daughters of EVE sequence.

From the OxfordAncestors website.

If I remember correctly, the company was created by Bryan Sykes.

[Penny_Wilson]

WHAT???
    Penny -- I'll freely admit that I have not been following this thread very carefully, but what sort of comment is that?  
    Perhaps you are feeling a bit 'put upon' and I am sure that we all - no matter if we're historians, 'popular authors' or simply amateurs, have at one time or another felt that way, but the tone of this comment is rather unworthy of you and it does not reflect your past detailed research in the best light...

rskkiya

Rsskiya, with all due respect, I reject ENTIRELY the notion that responding to the treatment I have received from certain posters reflects in ANY negative way whatsoever on my professional work.  In fact, quite the contrary is true -- some of the misinformation written about me and my work MUST receive a response in order for me to protect myself and my research.

I was quite happy as a "lurker" this morning until various comments were made about me -- so if anyone here doesn't like these defensive posts of mine, just stop making unacceptable comments about me.  Thanks.

[daveK]

I found more information about Mitochondria DNA mutation rate.
GO to:
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/mitochondria.html

[daveK]

This is a very recent article by Peter Gill, from Nature Genetics Review October 2004.

It there is a controversy, you cannot publish in a top journal's review.
It can tell you that all the result was unchallenged for 10 years.  

[daveK]

Nature Genetics issued the final editorial in 1996, declaring that “the case was closed”. There are a couple of interesting facts in this editorial. I described below.





This editorial was very interesting to me.
1)      I was always wondering why they didn’t exhume Grand Duke Georgij for the first study. They tried, but it was financially and politically inconceivable.
2)      Not everyone was cooperative. Tsar’s nephew, Tikhon Kulikovsky refused to cooperate.
3)      Two unnamed sources of Tsar’s maternal relative who provided DNA was Xenia Sfiri and the Duke of Fire.
4)      Suspecting the result of Gill, William Maples conducted his own DNA study. He sent teeth to Mary-Clair King. Her result was unpublished, but she found a match between Alexandra and her grand niece. Why didn't Alec Knight mention this??
5)      It is important to note that this article was really a “closure” for scientists. Since this article, Nature has never reported any news relating the Romanov DNA. A controversial testing performed by Alec Knight was completely ignored by Nature. (the rival journal Science reported it in 2004 though)

[LisaDavidson]

Tikhon Kulikovsky refused to participate in the testing because he was not convinced it would be a truly independent study.

The two relatives were Madame Xenia Sfiris, granddaughter of Princess Irina Yussupova (and daugher of Bebe) and the Duke of Fife.

Mary Claire King achieved results identical to Gill's although as mentioned, these were never published. I have an email from Dr. King confirming this information.

[Mgmstl]

Obviously, I offended Helen, for that I apologize.