Author Topic: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end  (Read 73027 times)

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Offline lori_c

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2007, 11:20:12 AM »
Agreed.  All the "reforms" simply were simply unpopular w/the wrong people.  But, I think Paul misses out on being credited on all those points you cited.  Especially describing him as "enlightened".  Which you don't often see ascribed w/him but imo it is true.  How much Russia would have benefited had he been allowed to reign in his entiretly, do you feel?

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2007, 11:32:41 AM »
Well now, Paul  did have an awful lot of opposition did he not?  How far could he have gone? He was also rather erratic so would he have been consistent in his endeavors? Although he did have a small coterie of loyalists, would they have been enough to inspire the resistance to Napoleon?  Would he have been a dependable ally ? His affinity with Rome would certainly have alienated the Russian church...
Who knows ?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2007, 11:50:43 AM »
True enough.  Although his erratic behaviour perhaps would have become more consistent had he felt secure in his position.  As a dependable ally, IMO he was a loyal man.  The problem is who would he have allied himself with?  Would it have been Prussia, as Peter III did?  I suppose in a way it was better w/Alexander I in power as far as Napoleon goes.  It worked out better for Russia, certainly. 

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2007, 11:56:16 AM »
I don't doubt some of his policies were good, but they don't really get mentioned in books. They ought to. Maybe one of the reasons that Paul is mentioned badly in books about his mother is because it doesn't usually focus on his own reign but rather on personal qualities that maybe are exaggerated.His policies were unpopular, and if they had not been, he would have survived longer. I think his military policy had much to do with Prussian style military reforms which were silly, and that harked back to Peter III. They were not important reforms, they just made him look silly and they were not very popular. Also, venerating Peter III's memory as he did wasn't in good taste, etc.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2007, 11:39:39 AM »
I recently read the biography on Tsar Paul I by Roderick McGrew, I really enjoyed reading the life of this obscure Tsar. It was interesting to learn about the life of Catherine the Greats son, her bad relationship with him, his upbringing, passion for the military, marriage, love affairs, harsh short reign and then his ultimate cruel demise.

Its hard to find books on him though, I was lucky enough to find the McGrew biography in a booksale.

Now that I remember, this is the one I read as well. I don't think it's rare, but I don't know if many have heard of it. I thought it was interesting because it was a biography of him, but that it was a largely factual one, that just told you the facts. After reading it, I think someone should write a more up to date biography of him, because this one isn't well known, and there really needs to be a better source than biographies of his mother that only tell you the bad side of him. After reading that book, my one thought was that there was much about his life that was not widely known. Has anyone else read this book, and if so, what do you think?

Offline ALEXEI_P

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2007, 05:32:04 PM »

Has anyone seen the film (2003) Russian film  "Bedny, bedny Pavel" ("Poor,poor Paul") with Viktor Sukhorov?.  It's availible with Russian audio and English subtitles.  I just saw it and can reccomend it. 

It was beautifully shot on locations in and around St. Petersburg, including Gatchina, Pavlovsk, the Great Catherine palaces and the Mikhailovsky Castle.  Worth seeing in my opinion.

Alexei

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2007, 10:14:42 AM »

Has anyone seen the film (2003) Russian film  "Bedny, bedny Pavel" ("Poor,poor Paul") with Viktor Sukhorov?.  It's availible with Russian audio and English subtitles.  I just saw it and can reccomend it. 

It was beautifully shot on locations in and around St. Petersburg, including Gatchina, Pavlovsk, the Great Catherine palaces and the Mikhailovsky Castle.  Worth seeing in my opinion.

Alexei

One of the very good movies on a Russian Emperor. Viktor Suhorukov did his best.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2007, 10:40:28 AM »
I agree wholeheartedly.  The building of his "castle" alone is worth the watch.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Nemos

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2007, 11:57:44 AM »
http://pushkin-history.info/fotoalbom-old-1-/4280.html

Ìîíóìåíò Ï âë  I âî äâîðå Èíæåíåðíîãî ç ìê  â ÑÏá.
Monument of Paul I in a court yard of the Engineering lock in SPb.
At Jacque of the gawk...
book-old.ru

Offline Nemos

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2007, 12:15:51 PM »
Ê êèå ñò òóè ñòîÿò í  Ê ìåðîíîâîé ã ëåðåè? Ìîæåò èõ ñíÿëè âî âðåìåí  Èìïåð òîð  Ï âë  I,   ó í ñ óæå 2-å êîïèè?
What statues cost on Kameronovoy galleries? Can them have removed in days of Emperor of Paul I, and at us already 2 copies?

http://pushkin-history.info/fotoalbom-old-1-/4285.html
At Jacque of the gawk...
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Offline ivanushka

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2007, 02:47:10 PM »
I'm sure I've heard this quote attributed to Tsar Paul too, though I can't remember where.


Offline Vasaborg

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2007, 12:46:15 PM »
The last words of Paul I were "Gentlemen, in heaven's name spare me........... Give me time to say my prayers".

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2007, 09:17:52 AM »
Actually it sounds more like something that Nicholas I would have said.

I, also, have heard it, but can't remember who said it.

Or even Franz Joseph of Austria.

I've been doing so much "over reading" (where the royal households meet and cross paths) that I have a lot of stuff floating around me, but I'll try to pin it down.

Offline Romanov_Fan19

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2008, 09:06:57 PM »
How did his murder come to pass    like give me the run up the key players Reasons basically a Timetable   if that isntto much trouble.
Thanks in Advance

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Emperor Pavel - life and tragic end
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2008, 07:26:10 PM »
Please refer to the Alexander Palace Time Machine. I wrote a biography of Paul that is still posted there under "Palace Biographies". Sorry, we don't take orders here on the Forum. There is a great deal of material on Paul and a reasonable amount on his assassination in print, both in books and on the web.

Briefly, Paul was killed by a conspiracy of the nobility and with some complicity of members of the Imperial Family. He was known to be mentally unstable.