Author Topic: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process  (Read 56458 times)

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Greg_D

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Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« on: September 20, 2004, 07:27:09 AM »
I can remember reading somewhere amongst my many dozen books on the Romanovs, that it was rumoured that Empress Marie Feodorovna had some sort of early plastic surgery involving some kind of acid face-peel !!! :o This sounds pretty extreme/horrendous
Does anyone know if this was high society gossip by people envious of her looks, or a genuine occurance ?
I will try and find the quote, and I expect hard evidence would be difficult tofind ...  not the sort of thing people (esp royalty) would admit to  having done ;)

Greg

Annie

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 07:39:28 AM »
I never heard that, but I have always been amazed at her youthful appearence in her 60's and 70's compared to other older people of the time. She must have had some beauty secrets ;)

Offline Greg_King

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2004, 10:06:30 AM »
I'd chalk it up to 3 factors: 1) a thoroughly hedonistic, pampered style of life; 3) LOTS of retouching of official photographs (the differences are quite startling in some of these-her double chins removed, wrinkles, erased, etc.); and 3) LOTS of very heavy makeup-so thickly worn, remembered one man, that it threatened to crack when she smiled.

Greg King

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 10:20:45 AM »
I have been blowing up many of our original photos in Photoshop, to restore them, and it is astounding how much most of them are indeed touched up, as Greg pointed out.

Another old trick, believe it or not, was one Marlene Dietrich used in the 1950s and 60s during her tours. She actually had fresh fish skin put onto her face, and it was dried by a drier so that it tightened up, and THEN her makeup was put over it...a friend worked on one of her shows, and said that was a very old makeup secret...I wouldn't rule it out for official photos of the period!

Elisabeth

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 10:22:08 AM »
Photo retouching was a real art back then, wasn't it? I always wonder, what happened to those imperial photo retouchers after the Revolution? They must have all emigrated, because the photo retouching in the Soviet period is so clumsy by comparison.

In addition to the reasons Greg King gives, Marie Feodorovna might have retained a more youthful appearance into her 40s and 50s because upperclass women in those days habitually wore veils and gloves to protect themselves from the sun.  They didn't do this because they knew about damaging ultraviolet light or whatever, but just because a pale complexion was considered a mark of beauty.

There might have been a genetic factor at work, too, because Marie's sister Alexandra, the wife of Edward VII of England, was even more famous for her youthful appearance.  A lot of contemporaries recall being astonished by it. (But this was when she was still  middle-aged, not elderly.)

Elisabeth

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2004, 10:37:45 AM »
Marlene Dietrich and fresh fish skin, that's fantastic!  

I remember reading somewhere about another beauty secret of hers (or her Hollywood hairdressers). You make a series of very tight little braids along the hairline, pulling up the skin on the forehead. Instant browlift!  The only drawbacks are, I guess you get a headache and it only lasts a few hours (long enough to shoot a photograph or movie scene).

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2004, 10:54:09 AM »
Quote
I'd chalk it up to 3 factors: 1) a thoroughly hedonistic, pampered style of life; 3) LOTS of retouching of official photographs (the differences are quite startling in some of these-her double chins removed, wrinkles, erased, etc.); and 3) LOTS of very heavy makeup-so thickly worn, remembered one man, that it threatened to crack when she smiled.

Greg King


I thought the 'face cracking' was re: Queen Alexandra? The photo retouching is so interesting--does anyone know how they did it way back when? There's one picture I've seen of MF where she really looks middle-aged--she's in Court Dress I think and you can cleary see the double-chin and she just looks worn. There are others that I swear are from the same sitting that she looks SO much younger in. However, it is true about the veils, etc...Women took much better care of their skin back then. Now we spend a fortune on skin care products when we could probably just wear a hat during the younger years!  :) I'd heard the 2nd Marlene D story (about the instant facelift) but not the first--eww!  :-/
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Robert_Hall

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2004, 11:11:33 AM »
The fishskin treatment is very old indeed. Sharkskin/oil was preferred. Also common in another over-the-counter product, it does work.
Those braids are useful as well, but tend to come loose during a strenous preformance and cuase awful headaches. Also still creatively used  today.
Then, of course, wigs come in very useful for this sort of cosmetic solutions [pull, tuck, tape & pin].
Cheers,
Robert

Annie

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2004, 12:37:37 PM »
Quote
LOTS of very heavy makeup-so thickly worn, remembered one man, that it threatened to crack when she smiled.

Greg King


I didn't know that about her, but I remember reading in your book on Felix that he did the same, and that once while dining with Noel Coward he laughed and some of the caked makeup fell into the plate!

Poor Felix, how ironic that he was one of the few main characters in the drama to live to a ripe old age, but he did not deal well with the loss of his youth and beauty:(

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2004, 12:40:08 PM »
In addition to the fishskin and the tight braids, I have read that Dietrich employed another old fashioned beauty trick (which was probably well known to 19thc society ladies), namely that of wearing a fine gold chain, drawn tightly under her chin to give her neck a better line.
MF and Alexandra did age well, it has to be said.  Even in an age of rigid corsetry, they retained their figures and some of their looks.  Some of the photos from the 1900's of Alexandra, notably the Coronation portraits, are very heavily retouched, mainly around the eyes.  Alexandra was obliged (as was May of Teck) to employ a little extra artifice in the hair department, wearing what was known discreetly as a "transformation" - namely a hairpiece, which was frizzed and sat on the front of her coiffure and thus gave her enough hair for the fashionable hairstyles.
If memory serves me, this "transformation" came in useful when an attempt was made on Bertie's life at a railway station; the bullet apparently lodged itself in Alexandra's hairpiece!
On the subject of the fishskins - we still use them in the theatre world.  My most recent experience was our Wigs Mistress having to obtain them for a soprano (who was 56) who was singing Aida with us and needed to look 20!  Needless to say, there weren't enough fish in the sea to effect that particular miracle!
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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2004, 02:33:38 PM »
Yes, Alexandra & Mary both kept that fringe hairdo the rest of their lives. I have several CDVs of Alexandra in the early years when she still wore a chignon or other hairstyles and I think they're prettier. (Though it was hard to make her look bad). Alexandra was such a trendsetter than many of her nieces and her own daughters took up the hairdo--with not the same results! Vicky lamented the fringe which 'spoils Alicky & Ella's beautiful faces'. (Thankfully they both returned to the smoothed-back, softly waved hair).
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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2004, 06:01:40 PM »
I beleive I did read in one the may books I've read, that MF did have plasic surgerty in Paris, because she wanted to appear youthful since Russia now had a young Tsar...didn't make much sense...but from what I do remember the actually surgery sounded very, very painful

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2004, 09:49:20 PM »
I remember Edvard Razinsky said in his book that they did some kind of primative acid peel and then put porcelain on their faces... I think the Empress Josephine did that too... at least eh procelain part....
So long and thanks for all the fish

Greg_D

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2004, 01:32:38 AM »
Ive found my original source, and as Ilana says, it was Edvard Radsinsky's book Nicholas II. His source was a very old St Petersburg Grandee/Actress who said it was local gossip at the time ... I found the book in general a shade on the over dramatic side, so looks like there is no actual evidence. Mind you it would not surprise me at all had she had something like that done !! Marie sounds like a fascinating, if rather fearful character ... I imagine very much like Lady Bracknell in "The Importance of Being Ernest" !

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Re: Marie Feodorovna, her youthful features & the ageing process
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2004, 04:32:56 AM »
Further to Annie's email, a friend of mine met Felix once at a lunch when the chap was a teenager and Felix was very old.  My friend said the thing that sticks in his mind was the amount of make up that Felix was wearing which was smeared all over his face and clothes which made him look very strange.  Sad.