Empress Anna Ioannovna

[David_Pritchard]

What kind of prison did they have?Was it really a prison or some kind of a furnished castle with guards allowing them to do many ''normal'' things or...if anyone knows please tell,I am so interested!

I have read that deposed Emperor Ivan Antonovich's treatment and housing in Schlüsselburg Fortress was harsh. No visitors except his few jailers, no education of any sort, no comforts, beatings if he claimed to be the emperor. A real life story of the man in the iron mask.

David

[Macedonsky]

They were imprisoned in Russia at first, but later Catherine II allowed them to return to Holstein

To Denmark.

with their father, where they died - the last being Ekaterina in 1807.

Anton Ulrich died in Russia.

She had a better claim to the throne than Elizabeth, Peter III, and Catherine II

Anna Ioannovna's testament granted Russian succession to the only male offspring of Anna Leopoldovna and Anton Ulrich. Thus Princess Catherine had no succession rights.

(not to speak of Paul who may have not been a romanov at all).

You want to say Prinzessin Anna von Mecklenburg or Prinz Johann von Braunschweig were more Romanov?

[bell_the_cat]

To Denmark.

I was thinking of Holstein as apart of Denmark which it was (sort of) after 1773. However I looked up Horsens on the map and it's not in Holstein!

Anton Ulrich died in Russia.

I didn't know that, poor man!

Anna Ioannovna's testament granted Russian succession to the only male offspring of Anna Leopoldovna and Anton Ulrich. Thus Princess Catherine had no succession rights.

Did Anna Ioannovna mention Elizabeth or Peter in her testament?

You want to say Prinzessin Anna von Mecklenburg or Prinz Johann von Braunschweig were more Romanov?

I don't think so - I don't know who these people are!

[Marc]

Anna von Mecklenburg is Anna Leopoldovna,and Johann von Braunschweig is Emperor Ioann VI of Russia!

[Dominic_Albanese]

I have read that deposed Emperor Ivan Antonovich's treatment and housing in Schlüsselburg Fortress was harsh. No visitors except his few jailers, no education of any sort, no comforts, beatings if he claimed to be the emperor. A real life story of the man in the iron mask.

David

David - your posts are a real treat to those of us who are interested in earlier Romanov history.

Wasn't Ivan murdered by his guards (on the orders of Catherine II) during a supposed "rescue" attempt.  I say "supposedly" because after being locked away in solitary confinement his entire life, deprived of human contact, education, or companionship, Ivan was essentially mentally non-functioning wasn't he?  He was clearly not able to rule.  Than again, there were other Romanovs that could have been called embeciles and they ruled!

dca

[Macedonsky]

Did Anna Ioannovna mention Elizabeth or Peter in her testament?

No it was not necessary. Elisabeth was mentioned in the testament of her mother, Empress Catherine Alexeyevna, for the case if Peter II will die in minority. This testament was violated by Dolgorukovs.

[bell_the_cat]

No it was not necessary. Elisabeth was mentioned in the testament of her mother, Empress Catherine Alexeyevna, for the case if Peter II will die in minority. This testament was violated by Dolgorukovs.

So Anna Ioannovna's testament was irrelevant, as she had no business being Empress anyway?  :-/

[bell_the_cat]

Anna von Mecklenburg is Anna Leopoldovna,and Johann von Braunschweig is Emperor Ioann VI of Russia!

Oh I see! How silly of me!

[Macedonsky]

So Anna Ioannovna's testament was irrelevant, as she had no business being Empress anyway?  :-/

Strictly speaking, in accordance with Catherine I's testament nor Anna neither Elisabeth should reign. In the case of Peter II's death in minority the throne should pass to Caesarevna Anna and her issue (i.e. future Peter III). And first violation of this testament was when Peter II was proclaimed of age and Menshikov was retired from his post of tutor and exiled. Catherine I cancelled Peter the Great's "Statute on Succession", Anna later restored it in full force and based on this document to issue her own testament.

[bell_the_cat]

Strictly speaking, in accordance with Catherine I's testament nor Anna neither Elisabeth should reign. In the case of Peter II's death in minority the throne should pass to Caesarevna Anna and her issue (i.e. future Peter III). And first violation of this testament was when Peter II was proclaimed of age and Menshikov was retired from his post of tutor and exiled. Catherine I cancelled Peter the Great's "Statute on Succession", Anna later restored it in full force and based on this document to issue her own testament.

What would the rights of Anna Leopoldovna have been under Peter the Great's Statute? Was her mother excluded for being married to a non-Russian? Her mother was after all the elder sister of Anna Ioannovna.

[Romanov_fan]

She was a woman who was certainly self indulgent, but then she has never been given much of a life, as her husband died shortly after their marriage, and she was then exiled to his domain of Kourland. She wasn't well off, the place was boring, and she was rarely allowed to visit her family back in Russia. She was also not allowed to make another dynastic marriage. She did have lovers there, but not much else. All in all, she wasn't a great Empress, or even very good, but she was trying to make up for her early life.
I don't think she was a beauty either. She was also very German influenced for a woman who had only Russian blood; which could have come from her many years in Kourland which was very Germanic.

[bell_the_cat]

She was a woman who was certainly self indulgent, but then she has never been given much of a life, as her husband died shortly after their marriage, and she was then exiled to his domain of Kourland. She wasn't well off, the place was boring, and she was rarely allowed to visit her family back in Russia. She was also not allowed to make another dynastic marriage. She did have lovers there, but not much else. All in all, she wasn't a great Empress, or even very good, but she was trying to make up for her early life.
I don't think she was a beauty either. She was also very German influenced for a woman who had only Russian blood; which could have come from her many years in Kourland which was very Germanic.

She was certainly no beauty!

On the whole, given her lack of training. and her personal defects (!), I don't think she did a bad job - there were no major disasters during her reign- and Russia continued to acquire territory (Azov in 1739). Biron (her favourite) seems to have been able to keep control of things quite well, especially as there were all sorts of old noble families who would only be too pleased to see the back of him. I would give Anna 5/10 - not good, but not so very bad either.

[Romanov_fan]

I agree. I think she was by no means the shinning example of a great Empress, but she wasn't an absulute disaster. Her reign had some good points, I agree. I think that's a very good assessment of her.

[Romanov_fan]

I have always read it was because the marriage festivities were too much for his fragile health, with all the dissipation and drinking. I am not sure exactly how good or bad his health was before this. It's possible because wedding festivities in those days were full of drinking and such in Russia. If his health wasn't good before, that could have killed him. I had never heard it was suspicious, that he could have been poisoned or something, but knowing the Russia of that day, maybe. Was there any motive though?

[Dominic_Albanese]

I believe I read in "5 Empresses" that he died after the wedding (I don't remember reading anything about him being represented by someone else at his wedding) from too much drinking and celebration.  He was also, supposedly, of "fragile health" as stated above.

I've never read anything more specific than that.

best,

dca