Re: Cousin Toria

[bluetoria]

however it is quite apparent that Victoria  resented it.

This is exactly what I mean about her lack of drive! It wasn't as though she were an ordinary person deliberating about how to take care of an elderly parent (her mother wasn't going to be shipped about from Nursing Home to Nursing Home or anything!). Beatrice was in exactly the same position but at least took a stand on it!  (I am FAR too intolerant!)

[grandduchessella]

All of QV's children--even Lenchen and Beatrice--had lots of 'get up and go' as bluetoria calls it. Alix's children, especially the girls, were much more passive. George and Maud (when she was allowed to escape & blossom) had much more.

And who did you rip into over what Grace? Did I miss something?  

[Grace]

Hi Grandduchessella,

My post didn't come out as I intended.  I meant that I had to censure Martyn for his propensity to regard certain people as "ugly" - one of the people was Eddy as a child - could anything be further from the truth?!

He now agrees with every word I say...

Toria:  whilst she obviously had to have permission to marry, it seems surprising that, given her intelligence and desires, she didn't at least extricate herself from her mother, particularly after the death of Bertie.

Also, while Alix could be thoughtless and self-centred at times, it probably never occurred to her that Toria was not happy "in the service".

Just my thoughts...

[Duchess_of_Fenwick]

Grace wrote: "Toria:  whilst she obviously had to have permission to marry, it seems surprising that, given her intelligence and desires, she didn't at least extricate herself from her mother, particularly after the death of Bertie. "

Grace, don't you think that it might have been more difficult after her father died?  You know, that parental guilt thing.  I might think that Alix would have had a tighter hold on her after Bertie's death.  Just a thought.

"Also, while Alix could be thoughtless and self-centred at times, it probably never occurred to her that Toria was not happy "in the service".

Yes, that could be true.  But, I would think that the resentment which built up in Victoria would not have gone unnoticed by her mother.  I suppose it could get very complex - Alix treated them all like children well into adulthood.  In some convoluted way, she might have thought this was best for her.

[QueenEna1887]

My mistake I meant to say when I was on picturehistory.com looking at a picture of Toria there was a little bio next to it saying that she had several suitors but refused to marry!

[Grace]

Yes, Duchess of Fenwick, I would agree with your comments.

It would appear to me that neither Alix nor Bertie actually KNEW their children all that well.  Even Bertie, earlier on, stated that his daughters had no interest in leaving home and getting married.  Two later did just that and the third was apparently always unhappy that she didn't.  

Although they were obviously loving parents (though perhaps not loving in the firm, correcting way parents should be) they seemed also not to have recognised any individual traits in their daughters or, indeed, their sons.

I guess too, obviously in Toria's position and at that time, the only way you left home was with a bridegroom!

[Duchess_of_Fenwick]

Yes, I have read that she had several suitors, the most famous being Lord Rosebery.  I also read that her mother (which is surprising) once considered that she might marry her cousin, the future Christian X.  But, apparently there were no sparks on Victoria's part.  

[Duchess_of_Fenwick]

"I guess too, obviously in Toria's position and at that time, the only way you left home was with a bridegroom! "

Oh I would say absolutely to that Grace.  That was the only way to get out the door.  And I don't think this applied strictly to royalty.  The idea of a daughter being left at home to care for parents has been discussed on this thread already I believe - typical of the times.

[Grace]

Yes, of course, you're right.

Not only Royal ladies but ANY woman stayed at home until they got married.

Note, too, the Wales girls and boys were actually still dressing alike INTO THEIR 20'S!!!

[Duchess_of_Fenwick]

Yes, that is true as well.  I don't think I have seen that with the other extended families ie. dressing alike into adulthood.  Actually, I remember seeing photos (this was on a thread somewhere as well) of Alix and Dagmar in matching dresses (they were older, perhaps already married) .  Maybe this was typical in the Danish families??

[bluetoria]

I guess too, obviously in Toria's position and at that time, the only way you left home was with a bridegroom!

While I am sure you are right, it must have been something in Toria's personality that made her so miserable. Thora of S-H (Christian) also remained unmarried but her life was very full & she was perfectly happy & fulfilled. Perhaps it was because Lenchen was less overbearing than QA (didn't Louise also 'blossom' briefly after her marriage?)

I read something about Toria joining a 'strange' (to me) religious sect sometime around 1913/14 I think. She became involved through one of her maids - who was subsequently (& unjustly) accused of being a German spy. I believe Toria put up a bit of a defence for her, but the maid was dismissed anyway. Does anyone know more about this, please? (I have read only one short article.)

[Duchess_of_Fenwick]

Bluetoria - I have never read anything about Princess Victoria's sojourn into religious sects.  

A few other tidbits about her I was reading - her doctor thought she was a hypochontriac.  She did have many hobbies including the family love of photography, gardening, needlework , painting,art galleries, and collecting old glass and silver .  She was also a voracious reader and enjoyed book binding.

There seemed to be a great concern about her mental state due to the stress of being tied down at home.  Her sister Maud wrote a letter to Queen Mary lamenting her sister's lot in life and feared she might have a breakdown.   She may have been predisposed to some form of depression which would have gone undiagnosed.  Her situation could easily have triggered this type of illness.

[bluetoria]

bluetoria--it looks like her mother's!!

Childish like her mother's?  :-/
It always strikes me as odd that the letters of these royalties are insuch different handwriting because most people I know of older generations have very similar 'copperplate' writing. Perhaps it's because these royalties didn't go to school so just learned from tutors who weren't so bothered about making them conform.

[jfkhaos]

I am looking for a picture of Coppins, Victoria's home outside of Iver, which she left to the Duke of Kent.  Is anyone in possession of a photograph or image?  Thanks!

[Alicky1872]

Childish like her mother's?  :-/
It always strikes me as odd that the letters of these royalties are insuch different handwriting because most people I know of older generations have very similar 'copperplate' writing. Perhaps it's because these royalties didn't go to school so just learned from tutors who weren't so bothered about making them conform.

Well certainly Eddy's and George's hand writing is easy to read. George had a classic school boy hand all his life. (Or so I've read, I'm no expert!) I've seen a letter written by Louise, quite normal handwriting, but Toria and Maud both had quite rounded, "spidery looking" writing. Toria especially, as we can see from the letter Bluetoria posted. Very much like her mother's. How anyone can read it is beyond me! Must have taken an hour to decipher each page!