Author Topic: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II  (Read 295482 times)

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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2004, 04:37:23 PM »
Yes she did...and the originals can be seen at Burg Hohenzollern and/or Friedrichshof.

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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2004, 04:40:47 PM »
It is hard to believe, but true, that Vicky was the artist. She was such a grand lady and empress in every way! In the portrait of little Waldemar, he looks sooooo much like his mother.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2004, 05:14:43 PM »
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I wonder if there was ever a similar painting done of Sophie. All of Vicky's other younger children are depicted. I have never seen one of Sophie though.


Yes, Vicky painted them all. I've never seen one of Sophie, William or Henry from this sitting, though I have seen one of Henry in his naval uniform. I was going to post it but have to convert it from .bmp. Vicky was also a talented sculptor and at sketching.
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Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2004, 06:15:02 PM »
Are you reffering to the painting of Henry in "An Uncommon Women" I have the book but it is at home or I would scan it and put it up. Or are you reffering to another one?
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2004, 10:11:46 PM »
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Are you reffering to the painting of Henry in "An Uncommon Women" I have the book but it is at home or I would scan it and put it up. Or are you reffering to another one?


I haven't looked at my copy in awhile but this is the one I referred to:
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Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2004, 01:28:03 AM »
Yes it is the one from the book but the one in the book is not in color I don't think ( My copy is at home) I really love this painting and the others as well esp. the one of Moretta.
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Offline vickyandfritz

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2004, 09:13:14 PM »
I am not convinced Vicky had porphyria. In 1862 when visiting Strelitz to look over the 'Danish Princess' she tells her mother that she is ashamed of her face which is red and blotchy. There are further similar reports over the years and regular mention of neuralgia pain. I recollect she took quinine for a number of years until she found it disagreed with her. I have a feeling that it was not pophyria that caused her face to go blotchy but an increasing and painful reaction to quinine.

Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2004, 09:27:27 PM »
Welcome to the board vickyandfritz. You seem pretty knowledgable. You should fit right in with the rest of us here.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2004, 10:12:42 PM »
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I am not convinced Vicky had porphyria. In 1862 when visiting Strelitz to look over the 'Danish Princess' she tells her mother that she is ashamed of her face which is red and blotchy. There are further similar reports over the years and regular mention of neuralgia pain. I recollect she took quinine for a number of years until she found it disagreed with her. I have a feeling that it was not pophyria that caused her face to go blotchy but an increasing and painful reaction to quinine.


Hi and welcome! I was looking this all up in Vicky bios and most especially Purple Secret which is all about porphyria in the royal family. I don't think they proved that Vicky had it though there were a lot more symptoms than just the blotchy face. It seems to have been a litany of assorted ailments stretching out basically her whole life. The authors attribute a lot of her mood swings, depressive states and lack of judgment on certain occasions where she was carried away by emotion and lacked impulse control to the possibility of porphyria. For some reason, I just can't wrap my brain around the whole issue--there's a lot of scientific data in the book and history, not science, was my college major!  :) It seems pretty certain that Charlotte (her daughter) had it and that is also used as circumstantial evidence in building the case for Vicky. That seems to be the story though--a lot of anecdotal evidence and correlation doesn't mean causation though. I'll try and dig up some good quotes from the book.
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Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2004, 11:35:37 PM »
You say you were a history major ella. Me too.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2004, 11:59:27 PM »
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You say you were a history major ella. Me too.


Probably why we gravitate to sites like this.  ;)  :)  I received my BA in History back in 1995 (I double-majored in English) and I've been sloooowly working my way towards law school by taking pre-law classes (not easy when the Air Force keeps moving hubby!)

Some more info on porphyria:
Environmental triggers are important in many attacks of porphyria. These triggers include certain medications (which could involve Vicky ala the quinine), fasting, or hormonal changes (some of her worst outbreaks of suspicious behaviors seem to spike at the times in her life which involved pregnancy or menopause). Genetic carriers who avoid a triggering exposure may never experience symptoms (so Charlotte could've had it while Vicky was just a carrier ala hemophilia).  The cutaneous porphyrias cause sun sensitivity (which V apparently suffered from horribly), with blistering typically on the face, back of the hands, and other sun-exposed areas. The acute porphyrias typically cause abdominal pain (again which V had to a strong degree) and nausea. Some patients have personality changes (the writers quote her almost-manic switches in behavior often w/in the course of one letter) and seizures at the outset. With time the illness can involve weakness in many different muscles (she would also come to complain about this). So that's a rough look at the disease with my editorial comments. I'm no scientists so I can only say that while Vicky had a LOT of symptoms over decades that matched those of porphyria, they could also be attributed to other factors. It's the totality of the evidence that I think caused the authors of Purple Secret to draw their positive conclusion. Since a lot of physical evidence today rests on the color of the urine and that isn't exactly documented too throughly on Vicky's side (that I know of!) it would be hard to draw a definite conclusion since I don't think there are any plans afoot to run DNA tests on her. Empress Alexandra, Kaiser Wilhelm II and Empress Carlota of Mexico (Charlotte of Belgium) have also had the disease attributed to them.


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Offline vickyandfritz

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2004, 08:27:17 AM »
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Welcome to the board vickyandfritz. You seem pretty knowledgable. You should fit right in with the rest of us here.


Hi Group,

I'm from England but currently on holiday in Florida till Christmas. My credentials for joining you are that for my own information, I wrote a diary of her movements between February 1858 and December 1863. This task took me 10 years!

I can tell you that Vicky and Fritz are resting in peace in their mausoleum in Potsdam but I was unable to leave any flowers there in May of this year because the entrance gate was locked.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2004, 10:44:27 AM »
Vicky's paintings of her children are ever so good. She must have been one of the most capable artists among the greater European royalty.

Why did Vicky not try harder to get her children to marry more "important" mates, thereby continuing in her parents' strategy of unifying the leading ruling families of England and Europe? Seems like the only one who had a chance at some significant influence was Sophie who became queen of Greece.
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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2004, 01:30:10 PM »
Vicky actually hoped that her 3 younger daughters would become respectively queens of Greece, Bulgaria (through the Moretta / Sandro Battenberg wedding) and Romania. Her aim was to fulfill her father's dream and help expand the so-called "good Coburg influence" to central Europa. She saw this as a chance of uniting western and central european powers against autocratic Russia.  This was not to be.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Kaiser Friedrich III, his spouse Victoria and their family, Part II
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2004, 06:35:57 PM »
I don't know how much of it was Vicky's ambition, but Margaret (Mossy) was also talked of for Eddy (so Queen of Great Britain) and for Nicholas II (so Empress of Russia). I don't think she would've ever married them off if they didn't care for the prospective groom though . In a way, Mossy became 'Queen' when her husband was temporarily chosen as King of Finland in 1918.
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