Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth

[Marlene]

Tsaria,

In this this regard, we are in complete agreement, certainly in the editorial aspect. 

One of the problems with Christina's well-written book, is that it did not tell us anything new ... no access to important archives.  For another, the author didn't even bother to tell us where and when she was born.  There was also a lot of imagination without basis - the opening, for example, where Ella arrives in Russia ... it was purely speculation because Ella's paper trail is rather limited.  We have no idea what she could have been thinking or seeing because she herself did not tell us.

Christopher's book is a well-crafted biography, well-researched and with access to more material than other biographers, which is a good thing.

I must truly say that you have a good point. BUT, Warwick is a proffesional writer and Christina doesn't its started out of a hobby. This was her first try out. So ofcourse Warwicks" book is some better, because this was COMPLETE new for her.

I think it was also the job of EUROHISTORY, to tell ms Croft, what kind of improvements she had to do. Where she must think about for not to forget to mention. Its' also the job of Eurohistory to re-read the book, before publishing and to tell Ms Croft his/her opinion.

[Marlene]

Arleen,

I think it is wrong to tar Art for everything.  The author needs to question, to ask questions, to demand answers.  The author does need a competent, trusting editor.  That said, it is wrong to tar all ills against Art, and to say you would never buy anything published him, etc.  It may have been a learning experience all around.  However, as a published author, but certainly not in the first tier, I have no problems in being published by Art, whether in his magazine or book chapters.  I wrote one chapter for Grand Duchesses (and at the last minute), and also one chapter for Grand Dukes.

Dear Friends.....Those of us  who went thru Christina Croft's agony with her editor and publisher, Art Beeche and know the love and care she put into her book Ella, only to have it come out looking like a kindergarten class had printed it.....we know never to give credit to anything Art might have to say in review about any book!

I agree wholeheartedly with Tsaria....its best to put that ugly episode away and let it be forgotten....too many people were hurt beside Christina over that.   (Personally I would never buy anything that came out of Art's press, for any reason....)

Arleen

[Romanov_fan]

I am glad I learned more about the Croft book from reading this thread. I got more of a sense of what it was like. But, I just like to read about that, and not about the issues surrounding its publication...

[Alixz]

I just finished Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr by Christopher Warwick.

It seems no matter how many books, I read about Ella, and I have Christina Croft's book and Hugo Mayer's, I still have trouble seeing the young Ella.  The Ella as Princess of Hesse and house guest of Queen Victoria.

I can't explain it.  I just can't get a clear picture of Ella as a young girl.  I want to "see" this wondrous beauty and get to know the young girl who married at 19.

However, that being said,  Warwick's book, with some minor and obvious flaws was a good read.  He tries hard to present all of the views that have been accepted as fact over the years and to dig for the hidden truth behind all of them.  He spends time with Ella as she builds her convent and not much time with her as she went out into the slums of Moscow to help the poor.

I am trying for a second read of the early chapters to dig again for the story behind the myths of her engagement to Serge.  Much of what Warwick quotes is from the letters of Victoria Milford-Haven. (I suppose that Ella's correspondence has been destroyed and Serge's was burned by his request after his death.) So we have little of Ella's own thoughts.  There are some of her letters to Queen Victoria about her engagement but nothing between Serge and herself.

I did enjoy the book and would recommend it.

[Sarushka]

However, that being said,  Warwick's book, with some minor and obvious flaws was a good read.

What are those flaws, in your opinion?

[TheAce1918]

Yes what are your opinions on it?  I've been dying to get ahold of this text.

[Alixz]

One of the flaws is his repeating of Massie's "oarlock" incident at Spala. Which in another thread we have shown is conjecture and that Alexis was really injured earlier by jumping out of a bath tub.

His sentences are overly long with lots of clauses and commas and can lead to confusion as to the point. (That's just me, though)

Over all it is a good read.  There is quite a lot about Serge's personal life while young.  A great deal of speculation about his sexual preferences as now KR's diaries have shown his.

But as I said before, I still can't "see" Ella. 

[griffh]

What I found so valuable about Warwick's book was the new information and how Warwick gives us a much fuller understanding of the first years of the reign with details about Ella's close involvement in the redecoration of the Winter Palace suite for Nicky and Alix, etc.  From her letters Ella seems to have been very involved in her sister's life until the fallout resulting from the tragic event during the coronation in the meadow of K. field.  I learned so much more about how the vicious press campaign that persued Ella and Sergei in 1896-7 and appeared to have forced the two sister's apart and how Ella states that she was grateful that the two sisters lived in different cities because it would quite the gossip mongers. 

I also was deeply impressed by the image of Ella and Minny on their knees praying for the well being of Alix during that gruelling and prolonged labour while giving birth to Olga.  Warwick gives us such a tender picture of that birth.   

While there is such interesting information about Ella all the way throught the book to the WW in 1914, a shadow does descend on Ella and she remains a mystery women during the war years.  As an example, I find that before the war years Warwick is willing to reveal Ella's tragic relationship with GD Marie and that disasterous marriage she appeared to have pushed her niece into.  Warwick is honest and willing to reveal the complexity and negative aspects of Ella's character in that section of the book by quoting the GD Marie's letters about Ella's treatment of her.  But when it comes to the war years, when Ella becomes an outspoken critic, if not a political enemy of her sister, but there are no letters, nothing new in a period fraught with intrigue which Ella became caught up in and which have never been explained. 

I was hoping that, given the earlier new information, that there would be some kind of exploration of the complex relationship between Ella and Ziniada Yusupov that could start to unlock Ella's attitudes and activities during the war years.  There is no information about Ella's take on Ziniada's funding of political plots that were directed at the Empress in late 1915 or why Ziniada finally turned on Ella and considered her ridiculous as a nun in 1916.  But this is not so much a criticism of Warwick as it is in general of the way this period is handled. 

I find the Warwick book beautifully wriiten and filled with new information of the period up to the WW.  I must add that I feel that one of the helpful things about British biographers writing about such British-bred Princess as Ella, is that there appears to me to be a shared dignity; something about one's duty and honor that feels inherent in both biographer and his subject and that helps unlock the motivation of such a British-bred Princess such as Ella, at least I feel this in connection with Ella's committment to Sergei.       

[Svetabel]

But as I said before, I still can't "see" Ella. 

Here I agree. Also I agree that the book is a good read witn some new facts and info, but it's really hard  to "see" and "feel " Ella. I expected more from the Warwick book though he did a very good search and work.

[Alixz]

Griffh,

You are right as usual.  A very good review of the book, by the way.  I just think that not much was left by way of correspondence for us to study.

Because Serge asked for his papers to be burned and Ella gave up and gave away so much of her material possessions and there appears to be no diary, our knowledge is limited.

Warwick also reveals that Marie Pavlovna probably "slanted" her writings about Ella.  In her letters to the Prince of Sweden, Marie Pavlovna sounds like a typical in love bride to be.  I have always maintained that Marie Pavlovna was a selfish brat.  I think that Warwick hints at that as well. It doesn't seem possible that Ella could have been a cold and cruel to Marie as Marie writes.

There are times when Marie actually goes to Ella when she knows that Ella needs comfort.  I don't think that Marie would have done that had their relationship been a dismal as Marie portrayed it.

[griffh]

Alixz I certainly do agree with you about Marie being delibrately negative about Ella and Warwick does seem to hint that Marie was being unfair.  But all the same there does seem to be something harsh in Ella's relationship with Marie, and so unlike her relationship with Dimitri.  In spite of my saying this, I do think the fact, after her divorce and her return to Russia, that Marie wanted to follow in Ella's footsteps really proves your point that Marie earlier letters had misrepresented Ella. 

I have a feeling that there is a great deal more information about Ella during those war years that will eventually surface, probably not in personal letters or diaries, but possibly in political memoirs.  As an example, the former Duma member, Paul Gronsky tells us in his book, "The War and the Russian Government," that the Imperial ukase of August 11, 1914 that formed the Supreme Council for the Care of Soldiers' Families, and of Families of the Wounded and the Dead, under the Presidency of the Empress Alexandra also appointed Ella and Alix's daughter Olga as Vice-Presidents of the Council.  Apparently from information obtainable from the Empress' letters in 1914, Ella was actively interacting with Alix in connection with War Relief and organization.  There has to be more information about Ella and her activity as Vice President of Supreme Council. 

I do agree that family diaries and letters probably do not hold the key to the war years as they have either been lost or edited but I feel that between Ella's war work and her political connections with Samarin and that entire Moscow group, there eventually will appear enought information to make Ella come alive in 1915-1917.  I could be totally wrong about this. 

[Alixz]

Griffh,

One thing that you just reminded me of.  The mention of letters between Ella and Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna.  That was new to me and brought Olga a little more color.

I do hope that someone will find enough information to publish a book about OTMA.  Obviously they weren't just sitting in the school room.  They had lives and went out into the world.

[griffh]

Alixz that is a great point.  In the Empress' correspondence for October 21, 1914 she mentions how grateful she is that both Olga and Tatiana act independently.  She tells Nicky:  "Now 0. and T. are at Olga's Committee - before that Tatiana received Neidhardt alone for half an hour with his report - its so good for the girls and they learn to become independent and it will develop them much more having to think and speak for themselves, without my constant aid. – "

Either Shulgin or Gronsky mention that Tatiana really took hold of her Committee with great enthusiasm.  An Imperial ukase in September 14, 1914 gave Tatiana her own Committee called the Committee of the Grand Duchess Tatiana for the Temporary Relief of War Sufferers."  As President Tatiana, with the approval of the Empress, appointed the vice presidents and the members from the offices of the Ministries of the Interior, War, Transport, and Finance and Tatiana could also invite any other individual to her committee meetings that she felt could help the committee in its relief work.  I found the quote and it is from Gronsky, "Unlike the Supreme Councils, the Committee of the Grand Duchess Tatiana proved itself an active and energetic institution."   In one of the newer biographies Olga's solo visits to Irina Yusupov is mentioned, I think in connection with her distain of Felix's presence in town when everyone else was at war.  So both Olga and Tatiana must have had fuller lives than general beliefs about them allow for. 

I too hope that enough information will appear that will allow for a biography of Olga and Tatiana.  I believe that the Danish archives are still sealed.  I hope I am misinformed but that must be a gold mine of information.  Well anyway I am so grateful for everyone who has written about the IF and I always love to quote my favorite French historian, Jacques Barzun, "There is nothing personal about facts, but there is about choosing and grouping them.  It is by the patterning and hte meanings ascribed that the vision is conveyed.  And this, if anything, is what each historian adds to the general understanding.  Read more than one historian and the chances are good that you will come closer and closer to the full complexity.  Whoever wants an absolute copy of what happened must gain access to the mind of God."   

 

[Ortino]

Sorry if this has been posted already. I didn't see any other threads about it. It seems that Robert Alexander (author of "The Kitchen Boy" and "Rasputin's Daughter") is publishing a new book in April. It's called "The Romanov Bride" and focuses on Elizabeth Feodorovna.

Here's the amazon link for anyone interested in ordering it:

http://www.amazon.com/Romanov-Bride-Robert-Alexander/dp/0670018813/ref=cm_lmf_tit_23_rdssss1

And here's the summary from his website:

http://www.sitestories.com/theromanovbride/

[Robert_Hall]

Thank you for mentioning this title. I did enjoy The Kitchen Boy [not so much Rasputin's daughter though]. I will give this a try. Nice to read a bit of fiction now and then.