Author Topic: Disciplining the children  (Read 20049 times)

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Sarai_Porretta

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Disciplining the children
« on: March 08, 2005, 12:06:17 PM »
This was posted in the "Historial Anecdotes" thread:

Quote
The attitude of Nicholas to his children was very ordinary and simple. He often kicked them by foot.
Once upon a time on "Standardt" Duchesses became
extremely naughty: they went to the Captain's bridge and started to cry to the officers on the deck:
- Catch us! Catch us !!
Officers could not say "NO" to the daughters of the Tsar , so they obeyed , spreaded hands and started to catche girls who flied from the bridge.
Nicholas saw this . So , he took horsewhip , sneaked up
to girls from the backside and started to whip their legs
intensively. Girls screamed like little pigs.


This got me wondering about the punishments metted out to OTMA by their parents. I have never read that account of Nicholas whipping his daughters' legs and I found it quite interesting. Come to think of it, I don't remember reading anywhere about how or even if the girls were disciplined. Were they spanked by their parents, or did they not believe in corporal punishment (according to that anecdote, at least, Nicholas did!)? I doubt that Alexei was ever hit, of course, because of his illness. Yet he was talked to sternly by his father when necessary. But I am most interested in knowing what happened to the girls when they were naughty? I have read several accounts of them behaving naughty, but not about how they were punished for their deeds, except perhaps a stern talk. There are letters between mother and daughters, for instance, when it is obvious the girls are apologizing for something they did which upset their mother, and yet she always seems so gentle in her responses.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sarai_Porretta »

Offline Lanie

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 12:09:41 PM »
I recall reading that when Anastasia was going around playing a dog and nipping people's legs under a table (I think they happened to be high-ranking Army men of some sort), Nicholas pulled her out by her hair and apologized to the men and gave her a stern talking to.

Sarai_Porretta

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2005, 12:12:59 PM »
I also remember one time during the war when Alexei snuck up behind Anastasia and threw a snowball at her, Nicholas got very upset at him and told him quite sternly that he should be ashamed of himself and not to act like the Germans, who acted like cowards attacking people when they weren't looking.

hikaru

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 12:18:06 PM »
This anecdote came from the memories of the  naval boy who was  on "Standart" .
He wrote several samples of the panishments.
According to him, Nicholas shouted to Alexis.
Children were very  afraid of their father.

moonlight_tsarina

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 12:22:01 PM »
Quote
I recall reading that when Anastasia was going around playing a dog and nipping people's legs under a table (I think they happened to be high-ranking Army men of some sort), Nicholas pulled her out by her hair and apologized to the men and gave her a stern talking to.


That's hilarious!! ;D
I have never ever heard that story before, and gentle as Nicholas was I can still imagine him doing that!
But the whole bit about the whip...hmm...That's a little extreme.  :-/

Sarai_Porretta

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2005, 12:37:08 PM »
I confess that I find it hard to imagine Nicholas whipping his daughters hard until they were screaming, it sounds so unlike him. I don't think the children were necessarily very afraid of their father, as all of them (except Tatiana) were closer to him than to their mother and considered him a friend as well as a father. However, they did respect him very much, and it is said that he was the only one that Anastasia and Alexei, at least, obeyed. I guess that sometimes "respect" for a parent does contain a little bit of fear (fear of punishments) for children, so in that sense they may have feared him when they were little.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sarai_Porretta »

Katia

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2005, 02:26:07 PM »
Of course we have to remember that corporal punishment of children was a commonly accepted custom one hundred ago! And later, too... Can't imagine loving parents like Nicholas and Alexandra to abuse their children though - if they were naughty, slapping them maybe, or pulling from hair. What I've read they usually talked to them seriously, if they did or said something wrong. I can imagine that Nicholas playfully whipped her daughters' legs, and they screamed half seriously, partly delighted "like pigs"!  ;)

lostfan

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2005, 03:32:42 PM »
When Alexei put the strawberry in the lady-in-waiting's shoe, I think Nicholas scolded him for it and he wasn't allowed to attend any more state dinners for a long time, although I'm not sure you could call that a punishment.  ::)

moonlight_tsarina

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2005, 06:27:48 PM »
Haha, i never heard that one either!
Where do you guys find out about this stuff?

Offline felix

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2005, 11:35:45 AM »
From what I have read it always sounded like Olga got the most of it from her mother. Like the lunch with Grand Duchess Elizabeth M. When N&A expected her to control Alexis,while they were sitting there.

moonlight_tsarina

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2005, 11:59:50 AM »
No, What I mean is how do some off you find your sources as to what the children did to get them in such trouble etc.
From the internet or what?
No book I have is really into the GD's and Alexei enough to go into their lives in-depthly.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2005, 01:13:40 PM »
The younger generation does not realize that belts, switches and paddles were not only used by parents, they were also used by teachers and tutors up into the early 1960s.  Discipline was important.

I have no evidence that this kind of discipline was used on the Nicholas II's children. ┬áMy guess, if it occured, it was not very often.  Because, it didn't seem to be part of this family's make-up.

Does anyone know if the tutors were allowed to discipline them?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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lostfan

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 09:05:20 PM »
If only some of those punishments were still used, I'm sure some of my fellow classmates would be better behaved. I'm all against child abuse, but some kids are just asking for a paddle.

bookworm857158367

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2005, 09:46:49 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if the story about Nicholas whipping his daughters was true. Corporal punishment was common at the time and in royal families as well. There are anecdotes about Alix's mother, Princess Alice, being whipped by her governess at age 4 and being required to stand in a corner with her hands tied together after being naughty.

Another story about the misdeeds of Anastasia, from Massie's Nicholas and Alexandra:

Once, when Anastasia was teasing someone ruthlessly, Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna smacked her. On another occasion, Anastasia rolled a rock into a snowball and threw it at Tatiana. It hit her in the face and knocked her to the ground. Anastasia started crying. The book doesn't say what her punishment was, or what Tatiana's reaction was. That little stunt would have earned ME a spanking when I was a child.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bookworm857158367 »

Offline koloagirl

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Re: Disciplining the children
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2005, 07:51:37 PM »
 :) :(

Not to idealize the IF too much - but in all my reading about them -- I have to say that I too don't believe that the type of punishment which would include "whipping" with either a switch or belt would be in the makeup of either Nicholas or Alexandra.  

Now I don't know to what extent they condoned any type of physical punishment by their tutors - I can't imagine that it would be much more than a stern talking to.  

Until I hear anything more concrete, I'm with the faction that believes the GD's and Alexei didn't receive more than a stern talking to - something along the line of which "I'm very disappointed in you" (which I think would devastate any of the GD's, with the exception perhaps of Anastatia!) which judging from the remorseful letters from some of the GD's to Alix, certainly seemed to be enough.   :'(
They were simply too soft-hearted for that when it came to their children.   :)
Janet R.
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