Author Topic: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants  (Read 290790 times)

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #255 on: March 12, 2008, 03:20:25 PM »
Lisa --
Definitely I'm missing something, but I cannot find a "Palace Biorgraphies" section, or your biography of Dmitri Pavlovich.
Audrey Emery was my mother-in-law's sister-in-law, so I'm always interested in anything to do with them.
Please let me know where I can find your write-up.


http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html

Above is the link.

In the beginning (circa 1996?), there was just Bob and me working on the website and we wrote many of biographies for the Alexander Palace Time Machine. Much of our early work on the APTM does not have bylines. But, I can recall writing Dmitri's, Michael's and a few others. It wasn't too long after that when we met Arturo, who contributed the beautiful biography of Maria Feodorovna. And so it goes.

As a result of writing about Dmitri, I have over the years been contacted by the daughter of a friend of Audrey's, a few of her grandchildren, and the son of Dmitri's ADC who remembers the Grand Duke from long ago. So, I take it that someone from your MIL's family married one of Audrey's family?

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #256 on: March 14, 2008, 10:25:30 PM »
I believe the reason that Dimitri ended up in Ohio was that his father-in-law owned a company in Cincinnati.  I have read that he was quite rich.  So that is probably why we have Romanovs in Ohio.

Audrey Emery was from Cincinatti and her money was based there, that is the reason for the family's ties to that city and state.
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline Tatyana

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #257 on: March 15, 2008, 12:19:20 AM »
My mother-in-law married Audrey Emery's brother, Jack I believe his name was. She was in love with him as a young girl, but her parents dissaproved, as he was too "fast". So, she married another beau, and after he died, she and Jack Emery married when they were both in their '80's: a very romantic story!

Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #258 on: March 20, 2008, 08:38:27 PM »



It is such a shame that a biography (in book form) has never been written about Dmitri. It certainly would make for an interesting read. I can't believe some one hasn't already tackled the subject.

I have no admiration for the act itself (Rasputin’s murder), which was a cold-blooded murder and a vicious one at that. However, Felix always struck me as the more unsavory of the two best known conspirators. Perhaps that is an unfair accessment, but it is my opinion. Greg King's book, and Felix’s own autobiography, in addition to other works I've read, left me with the impression that Felix was simply a self-serving individual, without conscience. A man who committed murder not because he wanted to “save” anyone or anything, but because he longed for fame and was, apparently, willing to settle for infamy. He doesn’t appear to have seriously considered how his actions would affect his family.

Dmitri strikes me as a more complex individual. Obviously, one can never know the workings of another's heart and mind. Still, I've always felt that Dmitri's claim, that he participated because he wanted to save Russia, was sincere. He at least never attempted to profit from his participation.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 01:18:43 AM by Svetabel »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #259 on: March 20, 2008, 10:24:52 PM »
... I have no admiration for the act itself (Rasputin’s murder), which was a cold-blooded murder and a vicious one at that. However, Felix always struck me as the more unsavory of the two best known conspirators. Perhaps that is an unfair accessment, but it is my opinion.  ...  He doesn’t appear to have seriously considered how his actions would affect his family.

Dmitri strikes me as a more complex individual. Obviously, one can never know the workings of another's heart and mind. Still, I've always felt that Dmitri's claim, that he participated because he wanted to save Russia, was sincere. He at least never attempted to profit from his participation.


Your analysis is interesting! However do not forget the third participant, Vladimir Purishkevich.

You may recall that Ella sent Madame Yusupova a telegram expressing her congratulations for her son's "patriotic deed". It would appear that she (as had Ella) set aside any thoughts that her son was capable of taking the life of an innocent human being.

Dmitri certainly never profited financially from his participation in the criminal act. No matter what his motive may have been - he will always remain in history as a willing participant in the act of extinguishing a life not on the battlefield.

Margarita


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Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #260 on: March 21, 2008, 01:03:15 AM »
Oh, I haven’t forgotten that there were other participants. However, they (unless some Xenia’s sons really were present as Greg King’s book suggested) were not related to the IF. Felix and Dmitri were.

It is one thing to join a plot believing, albeit falsely, that you will save your country from ruin if you murder a man. It’s another to decide that you want to be remembered in the history books or a hero in your own time, so why not kill a man. The whole thing was abhorrent, but Felix’s attitude just strikes me as extremely cold.

As I stated above, I have no admiration for Dmitri’s participation in murder. I don’t consider the act to have been patriotic, but I do believe that HE believed it to be a patriotic act. That doesn’t in anyway absolve him of guilt, but it does go to motive. He was a murderer, not the least heroic in my eyes. I just believe that he was a less callous human being on the whole, comparatively speaking, than Felix.

From his sister Marie's autobiography:
"Before deciding upon participation in the plot, Dmitri had paid Aunt Ella a visit in Moscow. He talked with her until he felt that he had a clear idea of the Empress' mental condition. It was only after that, having convinced himself that there was little hope of a normal dénouement (resolution or outcome) that he decided to join..."

I do recall Ella's response. I was surprised a nun would react in that way. I know she despised Rasputin, but a life is a life, and for a woman who chose to be a servant of God...it shocked me.

Her telegram to Dmitri dated 31 December:

"Prayed for you all. Please send letters with particulars. God grant Felix the necessary strength after the patriotic deed."

She sent this wire to Felix's father that same day:

"My prayers and thoughts are with you all. God bless your dear son for his patriotic act."

I find her reaction astonishing. I would be horrified if one of my relatives had committed murder and I certainly wouldn't want to know "particulars."

Elizabeth wrote to Nicholas asking for leinency. I think it clarifys her feelings regarding the murder and the way in which she was able to rationalize the crime. Given that Rasputin had no weapon her suggestion that it might be considered a "duel" is certainly ludicrous. I can only imagine Nicholas' response to that. It must have been so very painful for him to have his family involved. I'm remember his message to the others that petitioned him.

Here is part of Ella's letter to the Tsar:

"…here the news that Felix killed him, my little Felix I knew as a child, who all his life feared to kill, who do not wish to become military so as never to have the occasion to shed blood - and I imagine what he must have gone through to do this, and how moved by patriotism, he decided to save his sovereign and country from what we all were suffering. I telegraphed to Dmitri not knowing where the boy was - but got no answer and since then all is in a kind of silence...crime remains crime, but this one being a special kind, can be counted as a duel and it is considered a patriotic act and for these deeds the law I think is alternating. Maybe nobody has had the courage to tell you now, that in the street of the towns people kissed like at Easter week, sang the hymn in theatres and all moved by one feeling - at last the black wall between us and our Emperor is removed, at last we will see, hear, feel him as he is and a wave of pitying love for you moved all hearts. God grant that you know of this love and feel it and not miss this great movement as the storm is still and thunder rolls afar...

Your heart must be so heavy in spite of your faith in God, yet your heart must ache and maybe a doubt of the truth of the position knocks at the door of your brain, don't shut the door, open in clearly and let the bright wisdom from above enter for the welfare of all..."

Also from Ella's deposition:
"In December 1916 I had a final, decisive conversation with the Tsar and Tsarina on the subject of Rasputin. I pointed out that Rasputin rankled society, was compromising the Imperial Family and leading the dynasty to ruin. They replied that Rasputin was a great man of prayer, that all the rumors about him were slanders, and asked me not to touch on the subject any further."

Ella wasn’t the only member of the family, as I’m sure you’re aware who shared Ella’s sentiments. From Andrei’s diary dated 21 December:

“By the very fact of Dmitri’s arrest, his participation in Rasputin’s murder has been demonstrated for the whole of Russia to see. And the death of Rasputin has been welcomed throughout Russia, with rejoicing going as far as hymns being sung in theatres, people kissing on the streets, etc.

In fact the names of Yusupov and Dmitri are o everyone’s lips and they are national heroes for having liberated Russia from a nightmare of filth. The more Dmitri is persecuted, the higher he will be elevated, and this will incite the whole of Russia against Tsarskoe Selo, including the Army, who will be behind Dmitri to a man.”

Also from his diary dated 29 December:

"At 2:30 the whole family gathered at Mama's to sign a collective to Nicky, asking that Dmitri be allowed to live at Usov or Ilinskoe instead of Persia, where any stay could prove fatal for his health because of the climate.

While everyone was talking, Ducky took me aside and asked me to tell Mama to be extremely careful with Aunt Mavra, who reports everything that goes on in the family to Alix, and has already more than once badly let down members of the family. Among other things it is her fault that Nikolasha was banished to the Caucasus..."
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 01:16:17 AM by Nadya_Arapov »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #261 on: March 21, 2008, 02:02:02 AM »
Oh, I haven’t forgotten that there were other participants. However, they (unless some Xenia’s sons really were present as Greg King’s book suggested) were not related to the IF. Felix and Dmitri were.

Is that what King wrote? There is no evidence that Ksenya's sons were also at the Moika Palace at the time. The two brothers were certainly at Nikolayevskaya railway station ready to depart for the Crimea with Felix.

It is one thing to join a plot believing, albeit falsely, that you will save your country from ruin if you murder a man. It’s another to decide that you want to be remembered in the history books or a hero in your own time, so why not kill a man. The whole thing was abhorrent, but Felix’s attitude just strikes me as extremely cold.

If you mean that Felix was "cold" because of his complete indifference to life, then yes he was "cold". I would also add that Felix was intoxicated by the thrill of his performance.

As I stated above, I have no admiration for Dmitri’s participation in murder. I don’t consider the act to have been patriotic, but I do believe that HE believed it to be a patriotic act. That doesn’t in anyway absolve him of guilt, but it does go to motive. He was a murderer, not the least heroic in my eyes. I just believe that he was a less callous human being on the whole, comparatively speaking, than Felix.

I see little difference between Dmitri and Felix in this regard. Both believed they were acting for the good of Russia for different reasons. It was certainly a fine demonstration of misguided patriotism.

I do recall Ella's response. I was surprised a nun would react in that way. I know she despised Rasputin, but a life is a life, and for a woman who chose to be a servant of God...it shocked me.

Elizabeth wrote to Nicholas asking for leinency. I think it clarifys her feelings regarding the murder and the way in which she was able to rationalize the crime. Given that Rasputin had no weapon her suggestion that it might be considered a "duel" is certainly ludicrous. I can only imagine Nicholas' response to that. It must have been so very painful for him to have his family involved. I'm remember his message to the others that petitioned him.

The remarkable aspect is that not one historian that I can identify has ever examined this episode in Ella's life in any detail. She knew that the murder was going to happen and failed to act, if not but to save a life. The entire episode is so contradictory against her professed devotion to the teachings of the Church.

Indeed Nikolai II was appalled that his extended family saw nothing wrong that an innocent man was killed who in reality harmed no one. The petition they sent was to seek leniency for Dmitri.


Here is part of Ella's letter to the Tsar:

"...crime remains crime, but this one being a special kind, can be counted as a duel and it is considered a patriotic act and for these deeds the law I think is alternating.

Ella seemed to have forgotten that Rasputin was lured as a guest and that Rasputin was received in the Moika Palace unarmed. The confrontation was indeed uneven. Furthermore Ella seemed somewhat confused about the application of Imperial law as it stood in 1916.

Margarita


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #262 on: March 21, 2008, 02:15:50 AM »
... Ella wasn’t the only member of the family, as I’m sure you’re aware who shared Ella’s sentiments.

Ella was one of sixteen persons who put their signature to that document. One can only wonder why she failed to take up a moral position about the act of murder. Instead she found no fault with Dmitri's willingness to participate (nor did she deter Felix).

One can hardly express surprise why Alexandra Fedorovna severed ties with her sister under these circumstances.


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Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #263 on: March 21, 2008, 02:54:56 AM »
I know without a doubt I read in some book during the 90s that supposedly Xenia’s older sons, or at least Feodor, may have been present along with certain society ladies. I’m almost certain that was included in King’s book about Felix, but I read it over a decade ago.

I would agree that Felix was intoxicated by the thrill of the fame and public adoration that would result from the murder. However, I have always felt his claims of patriotism rang hollow. He came across as clever, witty, but incredibly shallow in his autobiography, and other books mentioning him did little to change my opinion on that score. I find it hard to believe that he was capable of being inspired by duty or patriotism; he came across as far too self-serving. I’ll leave it there since this isn’t a thread about Felix. It’s my fault for going off in that direction. I only brought him up because I wanted to point out what I felt was a difference between his motivations for murdering Rasputin and Dmitri’s own.

I'm not surprised at all that Alix cut herself off from Ella. Given her personality and her firm belief in Rasputin I find it incredible that Dmitri would not have understood how she would react. Obviously, he shouldn't have participated because murder itself is a vile thing. That said he also should have known that Alix would view him not only as Rasputin's murderer, but as the de facto murderer of Alexei in a sense. Alix saw Rasputin as Alexei's safeguard, the one being who could keep him alive. Dmitri removed that being and in doing so endangered Alexei. I've often wondered what he thought the end result of his actions would be. Did he believe that the next step would be to exile Alix as others in the IF wished to do? If so, how can he have been foolish enough to believe that Nicholas would ever agree to that? Did they intend to make Nicholas exile Alix using force? Did he think they could remove Nicholas himself? I don't understand what he thought would come of this, what the family's next step would be. He should have known N&A both well enough to realize the futility of murdering Rasputin.

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #264 on: March 22, 2008, 03:22:33 PM »
First of all there can be no doubt that the exile of Grand Duke Dimitry saved his life and the part of his fortune that he was able to extract from Russia before the revolution.  HIs son downplayed his aristocratic background but allowed his children to use their titles.  Paul was a very succesful mayor of Palm Beach and Palm Beach gained from his unpaid or barely paid management.  As for the death of Rasputin, most members of the aristocracy viewed his continued living as a danger to them and to everything they valued. Aside from Alexandra, there were probably not too many members of Russian society who mourned his death.  There was a rumour that the plot was hatched by British secret  service agents who were worried that social unstability (that Rasputin was contributing to with his unpopularity) would erupt into revolution and pull Russia out of the war.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #265 on: March 23, 2008, 12:38:06 AM »
Alexandra's stubborn refusal to distance herself at all from Rasputin was certainly part of Dmitri's decision to participate in the murder. Had she been less bull headed, the plot involving Dmitri might never have happened.

Certainly surviving in exile was in a way a great punishment for him. Before he was thirty, his biological and both sets of "adoptive" parents were dead, with his father, the Imperial couple and Ella and Serge all killed by revolutionaries. While I'm certain he loved Audrey and Paul, how happy could he have ever been after sustaining all of these losses?

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #266 on: March 23, 2008, 07:30:58 AM »
I think that understanding Alexandra's character is one of the necessities to understanding why revolutions occurred in Russia She had a combination of stubbornness, lack of knowledge and a superstitious nature that caused problems and eventually caused her and her family's deaths.  It certainly created the problem that Dimitri tried to solve.
  In cases where a person survives when most people like him are annihilated there is a sense of guilt about surviving and where there is an erasing of everything you knew as a child, then the roots of your being are destroyed and you wind up with a feeling of emptyness.  It would have been a miracle if he had been happy.
  His son Paul and probably his other children had two sides to choose from (an American and an Imperial Russian side)  I think that Paul chose to develop his American side and to use his Romanov heritage for his benefit and I think he was probably happier than his father

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #267 on: March 23, 2008, 10:20:18 AM »
Re: Post #272;  your third paragraph:  I agree.    AP
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 10:22:23 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Nadya_Arapov

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #268 on: March 23, 2008, 06:46:27 PM »
Alexandra's stubborn refusal to distance herself at all from Rasputin was certainly part of Dmitri's decision to participate in the murder. Had she been less bull headed, the plot involving Dmitri might never have happened.

I realize that. I simply don’t understand what good Dmitri believed would come of it. He knew Nicholas too well (or should have) to honestly believe that he would willingly desert Alexandra. He should have known that killing Rasputin would not weaken her influence over Nicholas. It just seems like such a pointless action, because it was only bound to further isolate Nicholas from his family. How could he not realize that Nicholas would never approve of murder? It should not have surprised any member of his family that Nicholas chose to cut himself off from them to an even greater extent after Rasputin’s death. Unless Dmitri believed that the next step was to overthrow Nicholas, and I’m not convinced that he did, I simply don’t see what good Dmitri could have believed would result from killing Rasputin. Removing Rasputin accomplished nothing, because Rasputin was not at the root of the problem, Alexandra was, and Nicholas would never have consented to her exile.

Offline pandora

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #269 on: March 23, 2008, 09:00:08 PM »
Nadya - No, killing Rasputin didn't accomplish anythiing. IMO, Rasputin was the family's scapegoat for their problems, specifically, and Russia's problems in general.

And your earlier points regarding Ella are interesting in that legally, her knowledge of the crime before & after the fact certainly implicate her as an accessory to the act which is in such marked contradiction to her religious beliefs and her being a nun...so very sad, IMO