Author Topic: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family  (Read 326002 times)

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pushkina

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2004, 08:07:29 AM »
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Oh I do not think so at all.  I have interviewed living members of the Romanian royal family, the King himself, and this was discussed at great length...there is no McCarthyism" involved here, but plain and simple betrayal by Elisabeth and Ileana of her nephew and former sister-in-law.

Arturo Beéche


how so?  what was the betrayal?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pushkina »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2004, 04:37:19 PM »
I'll make a stab - King Michael was the nephew of Elizabeth and Illeana and his mother, Queen Helen was their former sister in law. King Michael was forced at gunpoint by the Communists to abdicate the throne. Ergo, if E and I were at all sympathetic to the Commies, they betrayed their nephew and former sister in law. Capice?

pushkina

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2004, 08:32:00 PM »
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I'll make a stab - King Michael was the nephew of Elizabeth and Illeana and his mother, Queen Helen was their former sister in law. King Michael was forced at gunpoint by the Communists to abdicate the throne. Ergo, if E and I were at all sympathetic to the Commies, they betrayed their nephew and former sister in law. Capice?

yes yes i understand that.  my question again: what was the specific betrayal?    did they help carol load up magda lupescu?  were they somehow involved with patrescanu and gheorgiou dej?  did they somehow seduce sanatescu and keep his mind unfocused as he fumbledd through the creation and dissolution of two governments at mihai's request? were they the reason radulescu lost control of bucharest?  did they pawn their jewels to support the party?  did they drive vyshynsky and his puppet petru groza to the palace?  did they lead ana pauker up secret stairs into the palace?  what did they do?

and what about naphtali's contention (which i have heard amongst rumanians) that they too were humiliated and persecuted by the commies?  if they had participated in a betrayal of mihai, then wouldn't they have been able to leave rumania rather more freely than not?

on this one, with so many academic studies with the details of exactly how the government fell (and so many more which have emerged and continue to come out since 1989)  it is not enough to say " i know the royalty involved and they say it happened."

so what were the details, as maintained by your cadre of family reporters, of the specific plot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pushkina »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2004, 11:00:35 PM »
Since I am not Arturo and not privy to his info, I cannot give you the detailed answer you seek. I can say, however, that due to the behavior of the Communists in depriving HM King Michael of his homeland for over 40 years, that his aunts would not necessarily have had to "plot" in order for HM to consider that they had betrayed him. They were members of a ruling dynasty and they owed their alliegence to Romania and their royal house. If they betrayed these as HM said, they were guilty of treason - a serious crime in any country.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2004, 08:10:05 AM »
I'm afraid that I have to agree with Pushkina.  If you are going to make these assertions about "betrayal" lets have some real facts to back it up.
LIsa, I think that if Arturo is the one with the knowledge then you should let him back up his point, as opposed to sketchy conjecture.......................
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

pushkina

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2004, 08:16:26 AM »
i hope arturo gets back soon.  i'm really curious.

Robert_Hall

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2004, 11:45:32 AM »
I have heard these accusations from both sides for many years. No one of either viewpoint has ever said anything than vague, veiled hints at "could have done more". To me it sounds like just another [royal] family feud.
In my own opinion, I think it stems from the sisters supporting their brother [Carol II]  over their nephew [Michael].
Let's face it, none of them came out winners under the communists, so I find it hard to believe that had anything to do with their  "hurt feelings".
There is even a feud going on today, within the family, but that is another issue.
Cheers,
Robert

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2004, 08:35:27 PM »
I would dare say that there is little love lost between some of the members of the King's family.

Arturo Beéche
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pushkina

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2004, 09:17:59 PM »
love lost?  that is a given, especially with the new contretemps over radu.  and then there is the reported estrangement of the girls.  

but what is ileana supposed to have done that was treasonous?  i know they didn't like helen but what crime did they commit against the crown?

how did she supposedly "support" the communists?  neither she nor her sister gained any favors from them. they left on the run, and some say, with even less than mihai had.  so how did she supposedly assist them and for what gain?

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2004, 04:16:57 AM »
Actually Ileana and Elisabeth were romantically involved with Communist leaders.  They perhaps felt that by having some connections to the Reds these would respect their properties and fortune once the take over of the kingdom took place.  Alas, that would not be the case.

Arturo Beéche
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pushkina

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2004, 05:32:57 AM »
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Actually Ileana and Elisabeth were romantically involved with Communist leaders.  


with whom?  and when?  the muscovites, the people who came back from moscow to lead the party, were gone during the thirties and during the war; those party members who remained in rumania were imprisoned or some, underground.  

that sounds really improbable.  

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2004, 01:16:25 PM »
Not at all...Romanian communists were in side the country soon after the germans departed.  In fact, when I was working on King Michael's book, published by Eurohistory and Rosvall Royal Books jointly, the King told me during one of our many conversations that the saddest memory he had of being King was seeing the germans depart one day only to be replaced by hordes of Soviet soldiers the next...he knew then that all was lost.

The betrayal committed by his aunts, in an effort to retain their position and property within Romania, was detrimental to whatever family cohesion had existed.  Needless to say, the King does not have pleasant reminiscenses of this period.

Arturo Beéche
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Offline Ilana

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2004, 07:24:49 PM »
What contretemps with Radu Duda, if I may ask??? ???
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2004, 11:26:36 PM »
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What contretemps with Radu Duda, if I may ask??? ???


I do not recall mentioning Mr Duda whatsoever.

Arturo Beéche
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Princess Ileana of Romania,her life and family
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2004, 01:03:05 AM »
Arturo - you have most certainly met Prince Radu, who before his marriage was known as Radu Duda. What's up with this?