Queen Isabel (Isabella) II of Spain and her family

[Carolath Habsburg]

I wonder why she didnt do it...She was still young and beautiful

[Eric_Lowe]

Maybe one husband was enough for her. Her own parent's marriage wasn't a success either. Anyway she was quite religious and conservative in outlook.

[Mari]

Infanta Paz with her husband Ludwig Ferdinand of Bavaria look a very loving couple. You don't see that many warm photo's between Husband and Wife of that era! Was the Marriage happy?

[Yseult]

Yes, they had a happy marriage. Gladly, must I say, because Paz was a sweet and charming girl who deserved a good domestic life...

[Eric_Lowe]

I heard that La Chata was beloved in Spain. Wonder why she was so popular ?

[Yseult]

I heard that La Chata was beloved in Spain. Wonder why she was so popular ?

Yes, she was a beloved and respected infanta. But it´s a funny thing...Isabel liked so much to go out of the palaces in her carriage, she always was seen for the common people going to the "verbenas" (popular balls) and to the bullfights; so common people thought she was very close to them, when the true is she was the more proud of being a infanta and the more devoted to protocol into the spanish court.

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed ! I heard she was crushed by the idea of revolution and very ill when she went on her last exile to Paris. Baby Bee stay behind to assist her departure. She died in Paris. Was she buried there ?

[Yseult]

Indeed ! I heard she was crushed by the idea of revolution and very ill when she went on her last exile to Paris. Baby Bee stay behind to assist her departure. She died in Paris. Was she buried there ?

She was buried at the Père Lachaise...but now Isabel is buried in the chapel of the Real Sitio of La Granja, Segovia. If my memories are right, she was buried at La Granja since 1990...maybe 1991.
Isabel was so loved by people, and when the second republic was proclaimed, the government, knowing she was an old lady (almost eighty years old) very ill (she was a paralitic), invited her to stand in Spain. But Isabel was extremely loyal to the dinasty and the king -her nephew. She chose to depart to France. She was dead four days after the departure, in a very humble hotel. Her sister Eulalia (they had a not easy relationship during their lifetimes...ups and downs, more downs than ups I believe) and Baby Bee were with Isabel. Her personal secretary, Coello, and a lady-in-waiting, Margot Bertrán de Lis, were there too. Alfonso XIII was not by the side of his aunt...

[Eric_Lowe]

Was Francisco de Asis really gay ? Was the marriage even consummated ?

[Yseult]

Yes, I´m sure he was really gay. I´ve read that his great love was his assistant, Antonio Ramos Meneses. But I can´t assure if the marriage was or was not consummated. I suppose the couple did consummate the marriage and maybe one or two of the children were fathered by the king, but not the future king Alfonso XII, neither Isabel "La Chata", Paz or Eulalia. I´ve doubts about Pilar, the infanta who was dead so young. I remember reading in a book that Francisco de Asis did believe Pilar was really his daughter, so he treated her with special sweetness...

[Eric_Lowe]

I think Pilar was a sweet girl as both Pilarof Bavaria (her niece according to her mother Paz)  and Eulalia spoke it it in their books.

[umigon]

There's no proof about Francisco de Asís's homosexuality, although it is true that he was very close with Meneses, and in Paris they lived together. However, in Paris he also had a relationship with a female opera singer (sorry can't remember the name right now, I'll look it up afterwards...) with whom he exchanged very mmm... "hot" letters. So, at least, he was bisexual.

The failure in their marriage wasn't only due to Francisco de Asís, they weren't just fit for each other and neither of them had the character to face the facts and make the most of it. The marriage was indeed consumated and around 1847-1849 they had happy times. Two sons were born and died just after the birth in 1849 and 1850 and those were most probably Francisco's. About the rest, we can only conjecture, because no one can be sure unless a DNA test is made on their rests. So oficially, they still are Francisco's, as he acknowledged them. I wish those tests could be done!!

[umigon]

About Gaetano being gay, I hadn't read anything about it before, but I know he was a depressed and sad man...

The marriage with Isabel was indeed consummated, as she had an early miscarriage in 1871.

[umigon]

Hortensia Schenider was the name of the singer who had an affair with Francisco! Just remembered it!

[Yseult]

There's no proof about Francisco de Asís's homosexuality, although it is true that he was very close with Meneses, and in Paris they lived together. However, in Paris he also had a relationship with a female opera singer (sorry can't remember the name right now, I'll look it up afterwards...) with whom he exchanged very mmm... "hot" letters. So, at least, he was bisexual.

The failure in their marriage wasn't only due to Francisco de Asís, they weren't just fit for each other and neither of them had the character to face the facts and make the most of it. The marriage was indeed consumated and around 1847-1849 they had happy times. Two sons were born and died just after the birth in 1849 and 1850 and those were most probably Francisco's. About the rest, we can only conjecture, because no one can be sure unless a DNA test is made on their rests. So oficially, they still are Francisco's, as he acknowledged them. I wish those tests could be done!!

You´re true, Umigon
But I´m convinced about Francisco being "gay". Or maybe bisexual, but with a clear preference for the men. About the paternity...well, I´m pretty sure the marriage with Isabel was consummated and a few children of the queen were fathered by her cousin-husband. But another ones were not fathered by Francisco. Remember the words of Isabel to her son Alfonso: "All that you have from the Bourbon, you got it from me". And Paz was persuaded her father was Miguel Tenorio: in fact, she acknowledged her father and her father lived with her when he was an old man; the last will of Miguel named Paz to inherit all.