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Author Topic: Spanish Habsburgs  (Read 79642 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2005, 05:02:39 PM »
What does the el Hechizado in the title of this thread mean? Forgive me ignorance.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 05:15:42 PM by trentk80 »
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2005, 05:05:33 PM »
The Bewitched ;) because they thought he had been given some magic potion that forbade him to beget kids...
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2005, 05:07:08 PM »
Thanks Cimbrio. What would I do without you?  :)

They really had some wild theories with regard to people's infertility in those days, didn't they? I would have thought they would have just blamed it on his wives.  ::)
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2005, 05:15:15 PM »
They did LOL At least on the first one; the second, Mariana of Neuburg, was a bit of a hell b... and quite unpleasant. The first, Marie Louise or Orléans, was quite sweet, and cried so much when she heard whom she was going to marry... Carlos was tremendously inbred, I´m amazed he amde it to nearly 40...
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2005, 05:19:37 PM »
It's funny that Marie Louise cried but ended up happy with Carlos - her first cousin Mary II of Britain did the same when she found out she was to be married to William of Orange but the marriage turned out to be happy . . .

I wonder what Carlos is on a consanguinity index?
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2005, 06:58:23 PM »
The record for consanguinity was Maria Antonia, Carlos' niece. She wasn't deformed though!

Also Alfonso XII was highly inbred, without notable deformities.

Is it perhaps a presumption that consanguinity was the source of Carlos' problems?

I don't know myself - I'm just asking!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2005, 07:00:21 PM »
I believe Alfonso XII was highest on the consanguinity index with a rating of 25%. I don't know what this means but apprently it is very high . . .

If Carlos' problems weren't from consanguinity what were they from?
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2005, 07:06:07 PM »
Maybe just bad luck + negative medical treatment. Also non-related couples can have children with disabilities!
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Offline isabel

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2005, 01:14:28 PM »
About Carlos II illness in childwood:

He was born very feeble. A probable rickets impeded him to be able to walk . Probably the only succes he had in all his life was happened the 26 of july 1667, for the first time w could walk alone without any help, he was six years old.

Because of the rickets it existed a clear disproportion between the head and the body of the Young Prince.

His first diseases were....measles and chicken pox at six, and smallpox at 11.

He also suffered of epilepsy.

Poor child.
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Offline Rosamund

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2005, 01:48:39 PM »
Quote
The record for consanguinity was Maria Antonia, Carlos' niece. She wasn't deformed though!

Also Alfonso XII was highly inbred, without notable deformities.

Is it perhaps a presumption that consanguinity was the source of Carlos' problems?

I don't know myself - I'm just asking!


The ancestors of Carlos 11 to the tenth generation numbered 222. This is out of a maximum of 512.  Maria Antonia of Austria (1669-1692) had 61 ancestors to the tenth generation.    

Therefore you could be correct.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Rosamund »
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Grand_Duke

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2005, 01:22:45 PM »
It is funny but in 3 different portraits of Carlos II (except the ones with horses) he has a mirror at his side showing the back of his head! Anyone knows why?

And the lion is also present! Maybe a symbol of Habsburg or a symbol of royal power?
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2005, 12:53:22 AM »
The Lion is a symbol of royalty, but I wouldn't put it past them to have had a pet lion too! The Lion is mostly holding a globe, demonstrating the King of Spain's rule over a global empire, on which the sun literally never set. In the first picture on this threat, the Lion looks like a living animal - the globe is on the table beside the crown.

The large dog in Las Meninas is an interesting replacement for the lion (possibly?).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2005, 04:19:19 AM »
The lion is a symbol of royalty and power, although it could also be a pet. Don Juan de Austria (1547-1578) had kept a pet lion called 'Austria' which appears in one of his portraits!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 02:31:35 PM by trentk80 »
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Emperor_Nikolai_I

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2005, 07:53:39 AM »
[size=18]FELIPE II[/size] (Philipp von Habsburg)
Born 21 May 1527 Valladolid
Died 13 Sep 1598 Madrid

King of Naples and Sicily 1554-1598
King of England, France and Ireland 1554-1558
King of Spain 1556-1598
King of Portugal 1580-1598



His titles:

(July 1554)
Philip and Mary by the grace of God King and Queen of England, France, Naples, Jerusalem, and Ireland;
Defenders of the Faith;
Princes of Spain and Sicily;
Archdukes of Austria;
Dukes of Milan, Burgundy, and Brabant;
Counts of Hapsburg, Flanders, and Tyrol

(Jan 1579)
Don Phelipe, por la gracia de Dios, Rey de Castilla, de Leon, de Aragon, de las Dos Sicilias, de Jerusalen, de Navarra, de Granada,
de Toledo, de Valencia, de Galicia, de Mallorcas, de Sevilla, de Cerdeña, de Córdoua, de Córcega, de Murcia,
de Jahen, de los Algarues, de Algecira, de Gibraltar, de las islas de Canaria, Indias, islas y tierra firme del mar Océano,
conde de Barcelona,
señor de Vizcaya y de Molina,
duque de Atenas y de Neopatria,
conde de Ruysellon y de Cerdenia,
marqués de Oristan y de Gociano,
archiduque de Austria,
duque de Borgoña, de Brauante, y de Milan,
conde de Flandes y de Tirol, &c.

(Aug 1587)
Nos, Philippus, Dei gratia Rex Castelle, Aragonum, Legionis, utriusque Siciliae, Hierusalem, Portugalliae,
Hungariae, Dalmatiae, Croatiae,
Navarrae, Granatae, Toleti, Valentiae, Gallecie, Maioricarum, Hispalis, Sardiniae, Cardubae, Corsicae, Murtiae, Giennis, Algarbii,
Algesirae, Gibraltaris, Insularum Canariae, necnon Indiarum Orientalium et Occidentalum, Insularum ac Terrae firmae Maris Oceani,
Archidux Austriae,
Dux Burgundiae, Brabantiae, Mediolani, Athenarum et Neopatriae,
Comes Abspurgi, Flandriae, Tirolis, Barcinonae, Rossilionis et Ceritaniae,
Marchio Oristani, et
Comes Goceani


His parents:

Charles V (1500-1558), King of Spain (1516-1556) and Holy Roman Emperor (1519-1558)

Isabella of Portugal (1503-1539)


His wifes:

1) Mary of Portugal (1527-1545), married 1543

2) Mary I of England (1516-1558), married 1554

3) Elizabeth of France (1545-1568), married 1559

4) Anne of Austria (1549-1580)


His children:

1) (Don) Carlos (1545-1568), heir of Spain 1556-1568

3) Isabella Clara Eugenia (1566-1633)
Catalina Micaela (1567-1597)

4) Ferdinand (1571-1578), heir of Spain 1571-1578
Carlos Laurentius (1573-1575)
Diego (1575-1582), heir of Spain 1578-1582
Felipe (III) (1578-1621), heir of Spain 1582-1598, king 1598
Maria (1580-1583)
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ilyala

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Re: Spanish Habsburgs
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2005, 08:58:11 AM »
why is he called el prudente? he didn't seem all that prudent to me :P
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