Where is it ??

[bernard_timbal]

Hello,

Stil making search about Romanov 'Final Chapter' and Ipatiev House, I recently found in a russian web site a strange photo showing at the left a easy to recognize view of Ipatiev house and at the right a room (Of ipatiev House ?) I could not recognize ?

Do you know if it is well a room of the house ? which one ?

[Penny_Wilson]

Bernard,

I've seen this photo before, and it was described as the dining-room, just prior to the demolition in 1978.  The fireplace has been removed.  But check the ceiling decorations, especially the medallion around the light, to see if it matches other photos of the dining-room, because it might also be the bedroom used by Nicholas and Alexandra or part of the living room area...

[bernard_timbal]

Hello Penny

Thank you for your reply...

I find it strange if it is IH dinning room. Ok, there is the fireplace but on other picture of dinning room taken by sokolov, we see there is a door at the left side of fireplace on wall and there it doesn't appear to be any door. Maybe the Nicholas*Aleksandra room but in this case they have taken the only wall witouts apertures because it has 4 windows on two walls and the door in other one (the wall at the left, then, the door is not visible)

Then, the question remains  

[Abby]

Hmm, thanks for that picture, bernard. I have never seen it before. I have no idea what room that is! But what website did you get it from?

[bernard_timbal]

i found it on this website

http://www.romanov-center.ural.org/hram

it's in russian   but there is I think interesting stuff.

the directory "hram" seems to correspond to a people nammed who had already a page about Ipatiev House :

http://www.espb.ru/hramnakrovi/Ipatiev/index_ipatiev.htm

In this site, there is interesting photos of Ipatiev house but the most interesting is hidden...

Then, when you make a directory listing of this site

(http://www.espb.ru/hramnakrovi/Ipatiev), you find at top of directory 4 very interesting pic !











I tried to contact the author of the website about this very interesting work but he has never answered me  (only russian speaking maybe ?)

[AGRBear]

Very very interesting.

Thanks.


AGRBear

[Forum Admin]

The photo on the right is not the dining room, the fixture, crown moulding and ceiling decoration are all wrong, when compared to the photo in Sokolov id'd as the dining room.  It seems to most closely match the decor of the room he identifies as one of the "salons" or living rooms.

[bernard_timbal]

Yes, you are right, it seems not to be the same room, because of door at the left of the fireplace, the wall which has not the same colour, etc,

But, I can't see what other room it can be. The living room as though forum admin ? In this case, it must have a fireplace under the wall opposed to windows and on the photo, even if this place is hidden, we see, in good quality photo, a chair at the place where the fireplace should be.
So i don't think it could be the living room

I think this photo represent well the dining room because the top of the fireplace is the same. As said Penny, if the photo has been taken just prior to the house demolition, maybe the wallpaper has been removed or has been changed and the door has been condamned (we clearly see in photo that even fireplace has been removed !)

On other photo Penny sent to me and post also here, there is a photo of cellar-room with the wall removed. Here also, very difficult to recognize the place...

About this subject, I had read on Nicholas Ross book "La mort du dernier Tsar" (In french) that the wall of cellar-room had been sold to an english man. Then, since this date the wall has been lost or could has been possible to localize it ?

[Penny_Wilson]

Dear Bernard,

I have found a copy of this photo in our collection.  It was taken by a photographer called V. Borisov, and in the book "Taina Tsarskikh Ostankov," where the photo was reproduced, the room is identified as "stolovaya v dome Ipat'yeva" -- the dining room.

In my copy (provided by Borisov), the photo is much, much clearer, showing signs of the door -- which should appear towards the corner of the room -- having been blocked up.  I can send you a scan privately if you would like to look closer at the details....

Penny

[bernard_timbal]

Dear Penny !

Thank you for your proposal ! Of course you can ! I am still looking for all elements and photos about Ipatiev House and Romanov to update my website. If you have also more photos, they are welcomed and you can post it at b.timbal@romanov-memorial.com

Thank you for advance
regards

Bernard

[Antonio_P.Caballer]

Hello all,

I found a better image of the room prior the demolition. I´m also of the opinion that it is the dinning room and the door was blocked. The cornice, mirror and shape of the place formerly occupied by the fireplace are so similar.

Also, and a little off this topic, does anyone know what happened to the suit of furniture of this room?. I suppose they would preserve it....

[Abby]

Yes, it very well could be the dining room. The Ipatiev house had so many rooms though and they probably looked very similar, it is hard to tell!

[Belochka]

One can only wonder how many rooms in the Ipatiev house had fireplaces let alone having a similar design?

[Belochka]

Hello all,
I found a better image of the room prior the demolition. I´m also of the opinion that it is the dinning room and the door was blocked. The cornice, mirror and shape of the place formerly occupied by the fireplace are so similar.

The comparative length of the walls with fireplaces appear different between the two images.

Allowing for the fact that the distance from which both photos were taken was not the same, it is fairly clear IMO that the two images represented here are in fact two different rooms.

[bernard_timbal]

Hello Antonio,

Thank you for your Hi-Res picture ! It is really very very better.

As say Belochka, it is sure that the two photos seem to be very different (no door, but explained by Penny some threads ago, length of walls differents) but i carry on thinking it's the same room :

Ipatiev House has a lot of 'candidats' room other than dining-room :

1) rooms of the basement ? : They were used by servants or used by Ipatiev for his work. Then, rooms couln't be so elegants with this complexe cornice and big dimensions. Sure this room wasn't in Ipatiev House basement but at the first level

2) If we examine Gilliard map, we see, the fireplace could only be at this place (added in red) and the photo taken with red arrow direction (we see no windows and the door



3) It's not stupid to think it could have a fireplace on this wall because if the photo has been taken with "red arrow" point of view, the door at the left of the fireplace open to NAOTMAA room.




Now, if we examine the photo of OTMAA room, the photo hase been taken with the second red arrow point of view. In fact, the photo shows the only closed wall of room (all other walls have doors or window). So, the little stove at the right (framed in red) is closer to the fireplace of the dinning room. it's logical the two stoves are very closer because they surely share the same pipe.

The only difficulty is to understand in the 'recent' photo of the dining room how they could block the door to OTMAA room because it was the only one which let people enter NAOTMAA rooms...

Now, why the vertical dimension of wall seems to be so different, it's surely because the older photo with furnitures has been taken in a normal way with camera hold by people then 1m 70 from ground

The second has been taken some time before house destruction and I red that floor of the house has been removed (the floor on the second photo looks strange in the bottom left corner)



maybe the photo has been taken from ground room of the house with wall removed. then, the vertical dimensions seems very differents...

to reply to Antonio_P.Caballer, i have no ideas of the fath of the furnitures of the room. Maybe Ipatiev bring them in other place when he left this house after White Army defeated