Where is it ??

[Belochka]

So, the little stove at the right (framed in red) is closer to the fireplace of the dinning room. it's logical the two stoves are very closer because they surely share the same pipe.

The only difficulty is to understand in the 'recent' photo of the dining room how they could block the door to OTMAA room because it was the only one which let people enter NAOTMAA rooms...

It still seems to me that room which was blocked off is not the old dining room.

Agreeably, if the dining room did loose one door, then a new entrance would have to be made from what was the Imperial bedroom into the lounge room. It makes no sense why this sort of reconstruction would have occurred. The old loungeroom would loose its intimacy and would allow increased traffic flow.

Could we be looking at two different photos from two levels of the house?

Surely there would have been a fireplace on all levels of the house?

[moonlight_tsarina]

I had a question about the stairs that led the Romanovs to the execution cellar. Did they have to go through an outside courtyard to get there or was it almost like just normal house stairs that led to the cellar?

And for the water closet, was that inside or outside?
And I'm sure you all have heard that all doors etc. were removed, so when they wen't to the bathroom or tried to bathe couldn't they be in plain site for anyone to see? You'd think that would be tramatizing but I have never heard any accounts that they were upset about the WC, with the exception of the lewd drawings.

[pers]

To me it is clearly the diningroom as Bernard Timbal points out.  The door has been closed to the dressingroom.  It could be that it was later on accessed via Demidova's room or through the salon via the corner bedroom.  If you look at the initial plans of the house pre-Ipatiev on the Hramnakrovi website, you'll see that the corner bedroom was originally accessed from the salon according to the plans.  No other wall on the upper floor fits the photo and as pointed out it is too elegant for the semi-basement.  The ceiling is too high for the semi-basement.

[AGRBear]

...[in part]...



...

According to Gibbes book THE HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE  the room mentioned is  the Grand Duchesses' bedroom.  Details which are the same are  the wall paper and the light hanging from the ceiling, which  is the ornate glass later taken to England by Gibbes.  A color photo can be found p. 191 the THE LOST WORLD OF NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDER, TSAR  by Peter Kurth

Didn't this light end up in some college or univerity in the USA? 

The furniture is the same in Gibbs book as the GD's bedroom plus the hole in the floor.

In the red rectangle is what looks like a heating vent in the wall.

AGRBear

[bernard_timbal]

By chance, I have found new element on the "file on the Czar" by Summers & mangold (a classic one in my litterature ;-))

with other photos, drawings and pictures, is on the end of the book a document intituled "draft of the governor house at tobolsk" and made by people wanting to free romanovs. This document has been saved, said the caption, by Sydney Gibbs. Obvisously, it's not tobolsk house but Ipatiev House and at the place where I supposed they was fireplace (in dinning room and otmaa room), has been drafted a box and a triangle to symbolise the fireplaces. They is also a big rectang in the middle of the supposed dining room. Then I can conclude the mysterious picture is well the dinning room !! Sorry, I haven't scanner so I can't had it but if someone has Summer & Mangold book and a scanner, perharps he could add it here

[pers]

You are right, Bernard!  The plan also appears on page 90 in the Gibbes book that I have.  The caption says it is a plan of the Tobolsk house, but if you look closely at it, it is a rough sketch of the main floor of the Ipatiev House with some variance at the bathroom/toilet area!  The large rectangle in the middle of the room represents the diningroom table. If anyone out there has a scanner and the Gibbes book, please post it for all to see.

[bernard_timbal]

thank you for this confirmation pers !

You speak about the "house of special purpose" from Sydney Gibbs ? is it a good book ? Is there any interesting draft / photos stuff about Ipatiev House ?

[pers]

There are a few good photographs of the interior of the house, but too few.  There are very clear photos of the drawingroom, and diningroom taken from the door to Demidova's bedroom in the direction of the drawingroom.  The photo of the drawingroom is the regular one we all have seen, except that it is very clear.  There are photos of the "passage" through to the kitchen and the dressingroom.

Bernard, I think the plan in the book of Gibbes must have been drawn by him after he visited the Ipatiev House in October 1918.  That is why he drew in some of the furniture's positioning in the house.

[AGRBear]

...[in part]....

Below is the photo:
Floor plan which is found in THE FILE ON THE TSAR p. 256
which is listed as Fig. 51 "Groundplan of the Governor's House at Tobolsk, where the Romanovs were held through the winter of 1917.  It was prepared for sending with a coded plea for help from the tsarina to the Brirish royal family."

It could be the Impatiev House if turned upside down, which I did.  But I don't know.  




It is a very poor quality and so I had to adjust so everyone could see it.

On p. 90 of  Gibbes THE HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE  is the same floor plan under which it states:  "Sketch plan of the Governor's House kept with Gibbes's drafts of the letter to Miss Jackson.  Was it a concealed cry for help?"

What does everyone think?  Impatiev House?  Tobolsk House?

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

THE HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE by Gibbes p. 110:  "The Grand Duchnesses' [OMTA,] bedroom.  An enamel chanber-pot still stands in the corner of the room."  

NAOTMAA bedroom.

Notice the furniture, especially the screen with the white flowers [daisies] and the hole in the floor.



AGRBear

[AGRBear]

I enlarged the wall paper of the room which Gibbes said was the Grand Duchesses' bedroom which you can see is different than the dinning room wallpaper.

..[in part]....

Click on Antonio's picture and it will take you to the larger one so you can see the differences in the wallpaper.

AGRBear

[pers]

I do not understand what the wall paper of the diningroom has to do with that of the dressingroom.  It is clear that they are different.  

If I understand it correctly, we are talking about whether the room Bernard Timbal found the photo of, is the same as the diningroom.  

Also note the railing for hanging portraits on the photo of the dismantled room...  It stops there where the door should have been.

[AGRBear]

My posts have nothing to do with the "dressing room***". [Correction 30 March 2005:  Evidently the GDuchesses' bedroom and the "dressing room" are one in the same.] 

I do not know where the room in question with fireplace which  someone talks about in the original post.  [The photographs is no longer there, by the way and needs to be reposted.]

My posts only added to the other conversations in this thread.

AGRBear

NOTE:*** I hadn't realized the GDuchesses bedroom and the "dressing room" were one in the same until Pers in his post below told me.

[pers]

So the part you enlarged, where do you get it from as it does not match the wallpaper of the diningroom?

I seem to be missing something.

Thanks for posting that plan and the photo out of Gibbes' book.  Maybe you can upload those other photographs too, please

[AGRBear]

The enlarge wallpaper photo is that of the room marked as being in the Grand Duchessses' bedroom which Pers calls the "dressing room".

AGRBear