Author Topic: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?  (Read 111493 times)

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #285 on: June 24, 2005, 02:59:51 AM »
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These symptoms are *not* known to happen as a direct result of the clotting factor deficiencies of haemophilia.


May be not as a direct result but high fever and , with that, delerium, would result due to the body's reaction to the inflamation that would follow a bleed into the joint.
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Lizameridox

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #286 on: June 24, 2005, 07:00:54 AM »
Thank you, Kimberly:  high fevers and delirium were after all highly unusual in the case of the Tsarevich Alexei, noted only in the episode at Spala that nearly took his life, involving the reaggravation of a hematoma at an especially troublesome site and the complications thereof.

We note in the diaries of Alexei Nikolaevich and his mother that whenever he recovered from a minor bruising episode -- of which, of course, there were many -- his temperature rose slightly as that amount of blood was reabsorbed.  Consider that at Spala the poor boy had displaced a great deal more blood than usual, that his hip joint, his peritoneum (lower) and adjacent areas outside that barrier were inflamed, and that these events alone, exhausting the boy, bringing him near death, leading to a lack of blood to the brain, produced the high fever as the blood was reabsorbed.  Delirium in a boy so frail and so exhausted would then be understandable.

There was no mention of any symptoms involving the internal organs in this episode except for the child's heartbeat.  No seizures or other symptoms of the central nervous system per se were ever noted in Alexei Nikolaevich's case, not even in this one unusual episode.  The boy had so many other varied episodes of bleeding that to construe too much from the complications of just one of them is 'not being able to see the forest from the trees'.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #287 on: June 24, 2005, 10:53:41 AM »
What sources are you using about Alexei's conditions?

You've mentioned the diaries.  Can you give me book name and page numbers for the several events which is so commmonly mentioned here?

Forum Admin. has mentioned a newsclip.

Are there medical records mentioned in books which used mediical sources?  If so, can you tell me which ones?

I noticed that R. Schweitzer mentioned Dr. Bothkin had medical records that have been preserved.  Do these papers have information about Alexei?

Thanks.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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J_Kendrick

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #288 on: June 24, 2005, 10:56:27 AM »
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We note in the diaries of Alexei Nikolaevich and his mother that whenever he recovered from a minor bruising episode -- of which, of course, there were many -- his temperature rose slightly as that amount of blood was reabsorbed.  Consider that at Spala the poor boy had displaced a great deal more blood than usual, that his hip joint, his peritoneum (lower) and adjacent areas outside that barrier were inflamed, and that these events alone, exhausting the boy, bringing him near death, leading to a lack of blood to the brain, produced the high fever as the blood was reabsorbed.  Delirium in a boy so frail and so exhausted would then be understandable.

There was no mention of any symptoms involving the internal organs in this episode except for the child's heartbeat.  


A rising temperature.. no matter how much you want it to be.. is *not*a symptom of haemophilia.

... and a "lack of blood to the brain" caused by his hemorharging elsewhere as an explanation for his delirium?

You do realize, of course, that a "lack of blood to the brain"... which would also mean a lack of oxygen to the brain... would be likely to result in serious neurological damage... which we do not see in Alexei's case.

You mention, too, the known symptoms regarding Alexei's irregular heartbeat.   Here again, these symptoms... most notably the symptoms of systolic murmur and/or tachycardia... are known to be symptoms of a platelet disorder.  They are not known to be symptoms of a clotting factor disorder.

It's obvious right from the outset that you're still not the least bit interested at all in looking at any of the many other possible blood diseases.  You're still determined to make your favourite diagnosis first ... and to then force each and every one of those symptoms to fit that favourite diagnosis.. even if they don't.

That's completely the wrong way to make any diagnosis.  You search for every single symptom first.. no matter how small... and only *after* you have tabulated every single symptom do you then start looking for the diagnosis that best fits *all* of those symptoms.

You cannot be sure that you've reached the correct diagnosis unless you can at least try to put that haemophilia word out of your mind for even just a minute or two.  You must go through all of the other possibilities first and eliminate them one by one before you can even be the slightest bit certain that you have reached the correct diagnosis.

Only when you have successfully eliminated all of those other possibilities first... can you ever be certain that your favourite diagnosis is also the *correct* diagnosis.

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #289 on: June 24, 2005, 11:10:25 AM »
By the way, Mr. Kendrick, I think the public would be very intersted to  know your exact medical credentials and medical training as a diagnostician specializing in haematology? I myself have never seen them. I think this would be a good place for them, as you challenge the diagnostic abilities of others.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #290 on: June 24, 2005, 11:14:07 AM »
Let us focus on just this one bit of information.

JKendrick:  >>A rising temperature.. no matter how much you want it to be.. is *not*a symptom of haemophilia.<<

Did his temperature rise in just one time or many times or with each injury which caused bleeding?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #291 on: June 24, 2005, 11:17:19 AM »
With respect Mr. Kendrick,systolic murmur,tachycardia and irregular heartbeat (palpitations) are an indication of a cardiac abnormality either congenital or aquired. There are many people with these symptoms who do not have a platelet disorder. It would seem to me that YOU are the one fitting the symptoms to the disease?
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #292 on: June 24, 2005, 11:19:03 AM »
Also, the rising temperature is not a symptom of the disease but a possible side-effect due to inflamation.
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #293 on: June 24, 2005, 11:26:46 AM »
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By the way, Mr. Kendrick, I think the public would be very intersted to  know your exact medical credentials and medical training as a diagnostician specializing in haematology? I myself have never seen them. I think this would be a good place for them, as you challenge the diagnostic abilities of others.


As far as I know, JKendricks has never said he was a doctor, therefore, he is probably like many of us, just well versed in a particular subject.  His subject is hemophilia and other data which has to do with Alexei.    I respect his knowledge just as respect your own and others.  

It would be nice, however, if sources were given, but in the subject of hemophilia,  that means digging into stuff meant for people in the medical world and not all of us care to be doctors, just informed posters.

To continue the flow, we do not need constant reminders that many of you believe Alexei had hemophilia.  We know this.  What we are trying to understand is if Alexei did not have hemoophilia what other blood disorder could he have had.  Presently, we are searching those theories.

We would appreciate your respect in making this search as pleasant as possible.

If this subject is allowed to continue and all the facts known are presented,  then we'll have discovered the truth and the truth is where we all are headed when all is said and done.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #294 on: June 24, 2005, 11:35:41 AM »
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With respect Mr. Kendrick,systolic murmur,tachycardia and irregular heartbeat (palpitations) are an indication of a cardiac abnormality either congenital or aquired. There are many people with these symptoms who do not have a platelet disorder. It would seem to me that YOU are the one fitting the symptoms to the disease?


For the medicaly disimpaired old bear,  what does this mean?  Was Alexei  suffering from more than one medical problem?   Or, in this particular event, the temperature is not a symptom of someone suffering hemophilia?

Since I am not trying to fit a symptom to any particular blood disorder,  did Alexei often have a temperature with these attacks?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

etonexile

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #295 on: June 24, 2005, 11:40:59 AM »
OK...from everything I've read about AN,QV and their various relations through the years...and what Detective Inspector FA has dug up....I feel that Alexei did have haemophilia...Mr.Kendrick lays out a ton of various blood diseases which may or may not have been mistaken for the boy's illness...sooooo...cut to the chase....are there truely blood diseases which his doctors could have confused with haemophilia...allllll the same symptoms....?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #296 on: June 24, 2005, 11:43:57 AM »
Lisameriadox: >>Thank you, Kimberly:  high fevers and delirium were after all highly unusual in the case of the Tsarevich Alexei, noted only in the episode at Spala that nearly took his life, involving the reaggravation of a hematoma at an especially troublesome site and the complications thereof.<<

Was Alexei rising of temperature usual or was it not usual?  According to Lisamericaox, it was unsual.

So, anyone care to button down the percentages on this?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #297 on: June 24, 2005, 11:52:31 AM »
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OK...from everything I've read about AN,QV and their various relations through the years...and what Detective Inspector FA has dug up....I feel that Alexei did have haemophilia...Mr.Kendrick lays out a ton of various blood diseases which may or may not have been mistaken for the boy's illness...sooooo...cut to the chase....are there truely blood diseases which his doctors could have confused with haemophilia...allllll the same symptoms....?


Oh dear,  etonexile,  you've been hanging around old bear and must have caught the "out of the box"   disease.  ;D

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

etonexile

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #298 on: June 24, 2005, 12:06:27 PM »
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Oh dear,  etonexile,  you've been hanging around old bear and must have caught the "out of the box"   disease.  ;D

AGRBear


Thinking outside the box is the easy part..it's thinking inside the box which can be a struggle for me....and others? ::)....And I've yet to recieve my answer about the illness of AN....and alllllllll those other close descendants of QV.......

Offline Kimberly

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #299 on: June 24, 2005, 01:56:33 PM »
dear Bear, sorry,systolic murmur is an extra heart sound you would hear if there was a hole in the heart.Its the blood flowing thro the hole. So instead of hearing a "lubb dubb " noise ,you would hear "lubb dubb whoosh" or something similar. Tachycardia means fast heart rate. If you ran 1 mile (or 100 yards for me  ;)" you would have a fast heart rate temporarily. Hope this helps
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