Author Topic: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?  (Read 99270 times)

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Offline RussiaSunbeam1918

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #345 on: June 26, 2005, 03:28:50 PM »
Ah, sounds like me.  ;) Glad you taught it to me...heehee...I'm gonna have fun using this term.

Offline lexi4

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #346 on: June 26, 2005, 03:36:10 PM »
Me too. Especially when I look in the mirror.   8)
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline etonexile

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #347 on: June 26, 2005, 05:38:25 PM »
"Teddy...have we created a monster...."?


Teddy flicks ash from cig...shrugs....

Lizameridox

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #348 on: June 26, 2005, 06:09:04 PM »
We interrupt this levity for a little reminder:

:) :) :)  Tsarevich Alexei :) :) :)

Offline RussiaSunbeam1918

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2005, 06:33:05 PM »
Thankyou Lizmeridox.  ;)

I think a lot of people are "bloody minded" (heehee that was fun) about the topic about heamoplilia, but I have a question...those diseases in question? Can any of them be passed down, or if Alexei was not a heamophiliac, would it have been a coincidance he didn't have it like the rest of his family? (Or under these circumstances would it have been none of them had it, but just had a blood diaorder or sickness that weakens you in some way?) Sorry I can't word this better. I hope someone gets the qustion, because it's this lingering fact that is keeping me from being a little more open minded I think...


Offline lexi4

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #350 on: June 26, 2005, 09:56:26 PM »
I found this in King and Wilson's FOTR and thought it could add to this discussion.
"During the initial testing, some suggestion was made that the DNA extracted from skeleton 7, identified as that of Empress Alexandra, should be subjected to chromosomal analysis, to confirm that it carried the defective X chromosomes through which hemophilia is passed. The remains attributed to the grand duchesses also could be tested, establishing if they had  been hemophilia carriers. But the nature of the work, coupled with bot thime and financial restraints, eventually prevended such secondary testing."
FOTR. p.444

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Inquiring_Mind

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2005, 10:09:46 PM »
Quote
I found this in King and Wilson's FOTR and thought it could add to this discussion.
"During the initial testing, some suggestion was made that the DNA extracted from skeleton 7, identified as that of Empress Alexandra, should be subjected to chromosomal analysis, to confirm that it carried the defective X chromosomes through which hemophilia is passed. The remains attributed to the grand duchesses also could be tested, establishing if they had  been hemophilia carriers. But the nature of the work, coupled with bot thime and financial restraints, eventually prevended such secondary testing."
FOTR. p.444



I would think that testing for this particular defect would be not only double confirmation but of the utmost historical value.

Too bad.
I chose the road less traveled and now...where the heck am I????

Offline lexi4

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #352 on: June 26, 2005, 10:27:50 PM »
I agree.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Lizameridox

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #353 on: June 27, 2005, 07:06:05 AM »
So -- does this mean that one can only check for given gene markers when the DNA extract is in a fluid state?  It must...  but you are absolutely right - if the scientists had looked for the hemophilia (A or B) gene at the time they were looking for others that matched both each other and those of royal relatives, perhaps there would have been no doubt of their identity had that gene been located.

The only means possible now short of obtaining new extracts would be to find poor Alexei Nikolaevich and test His Highness' DNA for that gene.  

Offline lexi4

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #354 on: June 27, 2005, 04:30:49 PM »
I am amazed that they did not check for it. It just would have been further confirmation. Now I guess we will never know for sure.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Georgiy

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #355 on: June 27, 2005, 05:25:04 PM »
I guess they just assumed there was no point in checking for an accepted and known fact. Go figure.

Offline Inquiring_Mind

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #356 on: June 27, 2005, 08:01:32 PM »
The thing that bothers me is that there wasn't enough time or money. How sad is that?

They laid in a an unmarked grave for how long?

They had cousins who could have easily footed the bill.

And yet questions go unanswered because there just wasn't enough time or money.
I chose the road less traveled and now...where the heck am I????

Lizameridox

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #357 on: June 28, 2005, 07:10:44 AM »
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I guess they just assumed there was no point in checking for an accepted and known fact. Go figure.


Since everyone knows that St. Alexei was ill, why check for the illness everyone knew he had if there was no question that he had it?  At the time it would have been far less important to check for genetic information on diseases than to check on the family relationships, given all their constraints.

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #358 on: June 28, 2005, 09:01:39 AM »
Don't forget one thing. To do that would have required nuclear DNA sequencing, which at that time was FAR more difficult, expensive and time consuming than the mtDNA sequencing which was done. Today it would be a much different story as the sequencing is done by machine, but back then, everything was done by hand.

Offline Tasha_R

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Re: So WHY would it not have been hemophilia?
« Reply #359 on: June 28, 2005, 11:41:08 AM »
I've been away for awhile, so have just been catching up.

Liza, you wrote the following:
<<Assuming this scenario, for reasons of making sure all theories are based only on information dated before 7/17/1918 and that no further discussion of claimants emerges here:  Why might someone make an hypothesis that the poor boy had something other than hemophilia?  What circumstances would make one ask?>>
Other than for "claimant theories", those who might be researching Grigory Rasputin and his affect on the Tsarevitch would undoubtedly find this information useful.  Those, for instance, who might be writing a history of him.  It would be helpful to understand how Rasputin was able to intervene and help the Tsarevitch where others could not.
I, for one, understood his intervention to essentially mean 'have the child lie still, totally undisturbed, so as to not restart the bleeding and allow the system to repair itself.'  I actually used this advice and I believe my doctors did as well during my last bleeding episode where they simply waited it out and medicated me so that I would be in less pain and lay still.  The bleeding did stop on its own, but was carefully watched to see if they would need to take more drastic measures (which would have been surgery, as strange as that sounds).

Bear, you asked if it was true that umbilical cord bleeding was unusual for hemopheliacs.  From what I have read in terms of symptoms of the other blood disorders, it is certainly more common with the other blood disorders than it is with hemophelia.

Mr. Kendrick, in regards to delirum being caused by a lack of blood to the brain, I did experience this in my first bleeding episode with no real serious neurological damage.  I did find it difficult to remember words (and still do today, 20 years after, although more often when under stress).  The exhaustion of having bled for over 15 hours and losing half my blood supply before action was taken (in this case, I did require surgery to stem the bleeding.) did result in delirium.  Interestingly enough, they thought I required a second surgery because the numbers continued to go down, but when they went in, they found that the bleeding had stopped and there wasn't really a reason for the second surgery.

The most recent episode, one might have called me delirious, however it was more that I was inarticulate due to pain.  I remember hearing the emergency respondants say "Get her husband.  We're not able to get anything out of her (meaning an understanding from me was to what was happening)."

Remember, however, that I do not have hemophelia.  It has been diagnosed as "probable von Willabrands", which causes its own problems.  My hemotologist believes I have von Willabrands and my general practitioner doesn't believe it because the tests haven't come back "positively conclusive" and prefers to call it "thin blood", which other doctors will tell you doesn't exist.  Which only goes to show that, it's possible that even today, with all the medical knowledge we do have, it could be possible that we'd still get disagreements from the professionals on what Alexei had.  It is interesting that, to date, all that has been written on Alexei (except for Mr. Kendrick's analysis, understood) everyone agrees on hemophelia as the diagnosis.

Whether or not Alexei had hemophelia, the symptoms do match several bleeding disorders - none of which I understand to go into remission, which means he would have had a very difficult time surviving - although not impossibly so.  But again, I haven't looked into the cancer possibilities.

Just my 2 dollars worth,
Tasha