Author Topic: The Crisis at Spala  (Read 28292 times)

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Offline nena

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2007, 08:48:33 AM »
Thanks,Sarushka, I you know I can read Russian, and this great document translates as:
Diagnosis about healt of Heir,tsarevich Aleksei
30th.October 1912,Spala
7.00h.p.m.,dinner
Temperature of H.I.H,Heir,Tsarevich in the morning was 36.9, 36.8, in the evening 37.3, 37.1. His pulse in the morning was 102 and 104, in the evening 120 and 122.His face is pale.....
Diagnosis by:paediartrician Rauphuss,
    private Heir's dr.E.Botkn
    amateur dr.Ostogorsky
Diagnosis of H.I.H,
1st.ovember 1912
7.00h.p.m.,dinner
Temerature of H.I.H on 30th october, in morning was 36.9,in the evening 37.4., pulse same in the morning and evening-108. On 1st november in morning his temperature was 36.7, evening 37.0. Pulse in morning-104, in evening-108.At the last four days,hes bleeding was stopped.His circulation was normal. And, if this normal circulation will be able, his life will not be in dangerous. But, it coluld transform his life.
 Diagnosis by:paediartrician Rauphuss,
                 surgeon Feodorov
                 private Heir's dr.E.Botkin
                amateur dr.Ostogorsky

I hope I help you..... ;)
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Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2007, 09:16:33 AM »
Nena, you're wonderful!  :-*
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aussiechick12

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 06:57:15 PM »

This document gives us a huge insight into his health at Spala.

Thank you nena!  :)

Offline nena

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2007, 02:01:12 PM »
Thanks Sarushka and aussiechick12 ! If anyone have problem with russian language, here I'm!  ;)
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Mathematics, art and history in ♥

Alixz

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2007, 04:32:02 PM »
I know this is going to sound cruel, but has anyone ever thought of how different history and the fate of the Imperial Family would have been if Alexis had died at Spala??  I have always nursed the idea that it might have been a good thing.

Actually, Alexandra would probably have had a nervous breakdown or psychotic break.  She probably wouldn't have given up on Rasputin and might have used him as a "link" to the tsarevich.

Grand Duke Michael was married to Natalia by this time and had been taken out of the succession.  Next would have been Kyril and Ducky, but Alexandra hated both of them so much who knows what Nicholas II would have done? 

I know that there are those of you who don't like to think "what if".  But it is intriguing.


mr_harrison75

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2007, 04:41:08 PM »
The Imperial family would've been devastated, no doubts there...

I think it would've proceed the way it was intended to be before Alexei's birth, c'est-à-dire Grand Duke Michael as Tsesarevitch, whether Alexandra like it or not, she wouldn't have had any choice this time. I wonder if the Tsar would've abdicated then instead of 1917...perhaps it would've been the best for him, his family, and Russia...

Maybe even today there would be a Romanov on a constitutional throne, like the Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha Windsor in England today, who knows?

Alixz

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2007, 04:46:24 PM »
Perhaps Nicholas II would have relented and put Michael back in the line of succession.

You know, I almost said that I wondered if NIcholas II would have abdicated because it would have been very difficult for him to take care of Alexandra and to rule.

Michael and Natashia did have one son George, and his future would have been considerably different if Alexis had died as well.

Thanks for the thoughts.

TheAce1918

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2007, 06:35:32 PM »
The entire 'What If' subject is one of my favorites that relate to the realm of history!  Don't be shy!  :D

Anyroad...It is obvious that the family would have been completely devistated and inconsolable at the time.  However, I'm not so sure that Alexandra would've abandoned Rasputin.  In fact...she might have used his advice and services even more!  Nicholas would probably have kept his rule until an heir was chosen, most likely one of his nephews or closer cousins.

But it is really anyone's guess!  ;)

Alixz

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 08:06:29 AM »
I believe too that Alexandra would have clung to Rasputin as a "link" to her dead son.  Who knows how Rasputin could have manipulated that!

If Alix had a psychotic break (which I think would have been inevitable), Nicholas would have had to make some hard decisions.

I truly don't think that he would have put Michael back into the line of succession as Natasha was not of "even rank" and had been divorced twice.  (All though in 1917, he did abdicate in favor of Michael, so who knows? I wonder what Nicholas thought Michael was going to do with Natasha and their son George if Michael did succeed in keeping the monarchy alive?)

No, the only solution would have been Cyril and Ducky who (even though Ducky had divorced Alix's brother) was of even rank.

Then there was the rest of the Vladirimichi and then of course Dimitry Pavlovich.  But it is, alas, speculation.

But back into the realm of reality - the letters that were so thoughtfully translated by our other posters simply confuse me.  They seem to be nothing more than the patients statistics at the time and not a true diagnosis.  I know that the doctors were very afraid to touch Alexis for fear of being accused of contributing to his pain and perhaps causing his death, but isn't there more besides charting his temperature and pulse?


« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 08:14:52 AM by Alixz »

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 08:47:45 AM »
You are all forgetting the Ukaze reportedly written and signed by Nicholas at this VERY time right after nearly losing Alexei[', but never revealed (according to Mossolov who was there at the time, but its genuine existence is subject to debate and has been discussed elsewhere in the forum) which repealed the males only rule for succession and put Olga in the place of Empress-presumptive should Alexei die.


Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 09:37:53 AM »
But back into the realm of reality - the letters that were so thoughtfully translated by our other posters simply confuse me.  They seem to be nothing more than the patients statistics at the time and not a true diagnosis.  I know that the doctors were very afraid to touch Alexis for fear of being accused of contributing to his pain and perhaps causing his death, but isn't there more besides charting his temperature and pulse?

The bulletins I posted were public announcements, so there was probably a limit to how much could be said without giving away the nature of the heir's diesase.

As for Botkin's letter, I read his comments as being indicative of his own emotional state. He says, "I am in no condition to do anything but..." [my emphasis]. My impression is not that he was prevented from, or fearful of administering further treatment, but rather that the case seemed so hopeless, and that Botkin himself was so emotionally exhausted, he was incapable of doing anthing more than hoover.
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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2007, 09:45:04 AM »
According to Spiridovitch, which I posted elsewhere on the forum, these public announcements were very carefully worded.  However, it was not much of a secret either...

Alixz

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2007, 04:43:52 PM »
FA - A Ukaze such as you describe would make a lot of sense.

Nicholas was above all a traditionalist and would have wanted to follow the law.  However, all of the "next in lines" had done something to make them ineligible.

To repeal the "male only" succession laws, would have made sense to Nicholas and would have given pacification to Alexandra.  Too bad he just didn't so it and then let Olga be heir presumptive while Alexis was still alive.  Imagine the pressure that would have taken off of everyone.

GrandDuchess_2011

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2007, 09:26:09 PM »
Read this quote from the first link in this thread:

When I am dead, it will not hurt any more, will it, Mama? ...
When I am dead, build me a little monument of stones in the woods.
~Alexei Nicolaievich~

This makes me cry a little.  :'( I mean, when i'm sick or hurting, it feels bad, but I never say or think anything like this.

Alixz

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Re: The Crisis at Spala
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2007, 10:17:18 PM »
I believe that Alexis was in a pain that none of us can imagine.  A pain so great and so overwhelming that death might have seemed a release to him.

After all his pain came from inside his body and there was nothing anyone could do or say that would relieve the pain.  I don't believe that they gave him morphine or any drugs to ease his pain.