Author Topic: Romanovs and Faith/Orthodox Religion  (Read 145008 times)

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Offline violetta

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Re: Cousin Marriage
« Reply #165 on: February 04, 2011, 06:43:18 PM »
GD Ekaterina Pavlovna also married her first cousin Wilhel of Wuerttemberg,didn`t she? I think that Wilhelm was Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna`s nephew? If so, why didn`t orthodox church object?

Offline Sara Araújo

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Re: Cousin Marriage
« Reply #166 on: February 04, 2011, 07:30:11 PM »
Probably because she married two protestant first-cousins. :)
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Offline violetta

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Re: Cousin Marriage
« Reply #167 on: February 05, 2011, 04:19:54 AM »
But neither Beatrice of Coburg nor Victoria Melita were orthodox but the Imperial family objected to the marriages. While Victoria Melita`s situation (a divorcee) was quite understandable according to the moral standards of the day, Beatrice was deemed unacceptale as well. GD Mikhail and Beatrice were supposed to part. But in 1816 GD Catherine was allowed to marry Wilhelm of Wuerttemberg.  She was not a heir to the throne due to Salic law and she was to reign in Wuertteberg so the approach towards her marriage wasn`t so strict? I would be curious to have this contradiction explained.

Offline Sara Araújo

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Re: Cousin Marriage
« Reply #168 on: February 05, 2011, 05:21:13 AM »
I don't think the marriage laws were milder to Catherine as her first marriage was actually arranged by her mother and not of her choice. If Beatrice or Melita married Mikhail and Cyrill, they would have to perform the ceremony into the Orthodox Church and it is the Orthodox Church that does not allow the union between first-cousins. On the other hand for Catherine to marry her first-cousin, the ceremony was performed into the Protestant Church and the Protestant Church does not put objections to such a match, so technically there's no problem if a Grand Duchess wants to marry a first-cousin of a different religion, the problem only comes if a Princess of a different religion wants to marry an Orthodox first-cousin. Basically it's not absolutely impossible to a Grand Duke or a Grand Duchess to marry a first-cousin, the Orthodox Church would just not recognize the union... and that would be easier to accept in a woman, who was suppose to submit to her husband's culture, than to the man, who was supposed to be the lord and master of the house.  :)
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Cousin Marriage
« Reply #169 on: February 05, 2011, 09:35:29 AM »
Bear in mind that at the time Mikhail wished to marry Beatrice of Coburg he was Nicholas's immediate heir presumptive. For him to contract a marriage which was not recognised by the Orthodox Church was politically impossible.

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Offline Griae

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a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #170 on: March 14, 2011, 03:56:47 AM »
Good morning to you all

I do not know if this question has already been asked, I could not find it anywhere. And if I posted this in the wrong section I apologise.

My question concerns the religion of the Imperial Family and why they usually only married with foreign princesses who were Protestant, rather than Roman Catholic.

I get the impression that the foreign princesses had to convert to Orthodoxy when they married into the Imperial Family.
Is it that Protestants are more likely to convert than Catholics? (I do not know if it is, it is just an idea)
Or is it easier for them to convert because there are more similarities between Orthodoxy and Protestantism than between Orthodoxy and Catholicism?
Or are there other reasons?

Was it completely impossible to marry a Roman Catholic bride, or just unlikely?

Thanks for your answers.

Kind regards, Bettina

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2011, 11:24:17 AM »
I will happily bow to those with greater religious knowledge than me, but I think, generally, there was a greater reluctance among Catholics to convert. The only example I'm aware of where a Catholic was considered as a potential bride for a Romanov was Helene of Orleans with the future Nicholas II. The plan foundered when her father refused to allow her to convert, and a plan for her to marry Albert Victor of Clarence came to nothing for the same reason (though the pair were apparently in love).

Ann

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: A Question of Marriage and Religion
« Reply #172 on: March 14, 2011, 11:38:19 AM »
I will happily bow to those with greater religious knowledge than me, but I think, generally, there was a greater reluctance among Catholics to convert.

One reason for that was probably that Catholics subjected themselves to a rather obstinate Pope, while both the post-Petrine Russian Orthodox and the Protestant Churches were controlled by monarchs who could put state interests before denominational pride.

A rare example of a Romanov (albeit a female one) marrying a Catholic (but she kept her religion) was Grand Duchess Alexandra Pavlovna, who married Archduke Joseph of Austria, Palatine of Hungary. Ironically she was the intended bride of Gustav IV of Sweden, who broke off the engagement upon learning of her refusal to convert.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 11:45:10 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2011, 02:23:16 PM »
Actually, only the wife of the Tsarevich or Tsar was required to be Russian Orthodox. Wives of Grand Dukes could retain their religion if they chose. GD Ella did not convert to Orthodoxy from Lutheranism until they had been married for some time, and IIRC, GD Vladimir did not convert.

Offline Griae

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2011, 02:42:53 AM »
Thank you all so much for your anwers, it is so much clearer for me now.

Just one question, if the wifes and husbands Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses did not have to convert, could they (in theory at least) marry a Roman Catholic?

thanks again,

kind regards, Bettina

Offline Svetabel

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2011, 04:09:26 AM »
Thank you all so much for your anwers, it is so much clearer for me now.

Just one question, if the wifes and husbands Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses did not have to convert, could they (in theory at least) marry a Roman Catholic?

thanks again,

kind regards, Bettina

Grand Duchess Alexandra Pavlovna, daughter of Pavel I, married a Catholic, Archduke Joseph.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #176 on: March 15, 2011, 04:12:32 AM »
Did Maximilian of Leuchtenberg also remain a Catholic after he had married Maria Nikolayevna?

Offline Griae

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #177 on: March 15, 2011, 07:38:39 AM »
If only the wife of the tsar and the tsarevich had to be (or become) Orthodox, was this because of the laws for the inheritance of the throne? (I am not sure how to put that in correct English, I am sorry)
I read somewhere that a tsar had to have an Orthodox mother and an Orthodox wife, is this correct?

Am I correct to think that if a tsar or a tsarevich would convert to another religion, this would disqualify them as tsar? Being orthodox was, as I understand it, an integral part of being a tsar, you could not be one, without the other.

Were there ever any members of the Imperial Family who converted to another religion?

On the note of members of the Imperial Family marrying people with other religions: Anna Pavlona married King Willem II of the Netherlands, and she kept her Orthodox religion, even had an Orthodox chapel. This was something that was a bit frowned upon by the very Calvinistic Dutch and the Royal family of the Netherlands. They thought it was all a bit too weird, foreign and almost Catholic for their taste, with the candles and icons etc.

kind regards, Bettina


Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #178 on: March 15, 2011, 08:22:06 AM »
That would be my assumption, since the Tsar is the head of the Orthodox church.  IIRC, in the British royal family, the monarch is required to be a member of the Church of England, but all other British subjects are free to worship as they please.

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Re: a question of marriage and religion
« Reply #179 on: March 15, 2011, 08:43:48 AM »
Article 63 of the Fundamental Laws of the Russian Empire says:
Император, Престолом Всероссийским обладающий, не может исповедывать никакой иной веры, кроме Православной.
=
The Emperor who occupies the Throne of All the Russias cannot profess any Faith other than the Orthodox.

Part two of the Fundamental Laws, the Statute of the Imperial Family says:

183. На брак каждого лица Императорского Дома необходимо соизволение царствующего Императора, и брак, без соизволения сего совершенный, законным не признается.
=
183. Permission of the reigning emperor is necessary for the marriage of every Member of the Imperial House, and a marriage contracted without such permission is not recognized as lawful.

184. По соизволению царствующего Императора, Члены Императорского Дома могут вступать в брак, как с особами православного исповедания, так и с иноверными.
=
184. With the permission of the reigning emperor, members of the Imperial House can enter into marriage both with persons of the Orthodox Faith and with persons of other denominations.

185. Брак мужеского лица Императорского Дома, могущего иметь право на наследование Престола, с особою другой веры совершается не иначе, как по восприятии ею православного исповедания.
=
The marriage of a male person of the Imperial House who may have the right of succeeding to the Throne with a person of another faith can take place only after she has embraced the Orthodox confession.

The whole original in Russian: Основные Законы Российской Империи.

Article 185 was evidently only applied to the heir closest to the throne, the Heir-Tsesarevich.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 09:14:48 AM by Фёдор Петрович »