Author Topic: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List  (Read 259120 times)

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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #225 on: October 04, 2008, 01:45:06 PM »
About Shvibzik (Швыбзик): письмо Ольги Николаевны:
«…Настаська и Швыбзик Тебя целуют и идут спать. Татьяна сидит около и читает, а Мама с Мари играют в колорито Ортипо спит у её ног….» (5 апреля 1915 год).
Письмо Марии: «Мой золотой Папа! Я сейчас сижу около Мама, у неё на ногах лежит Швыбзик, Анастасия рисует. Ольга и Татьяна уехали в лазарет к Вартанову… Маленький Швыбзик только что сделал «губернатора» у Мама на ковре и Анастасия теперь его обучает…» (5 апреля 1915года).

Снова Ольгино письмо от 11 апреля:
«…Сейчас идет большая возня. Ортипо носится по комнате, а маленький Швыбзик пищит…».
Далее у Анастасии (12 апреля):
«Мой золотой Папа! Мы только кончили обедать, и Швыбзик возится с Ортипо ужасно… Мы пили чай в столовой и почти всё время там играли в разные игры. Швыбзик, конечно, был там. Виктор Эрастович думает, что Швыбзик будет хороший водолаз. Пруд перед подъездом, почти там нет льда, так приятно. Ольга играет на рояле. Так скучно, завтра уроки. Я хочу завтра поехать на велосипеде. Мне так стыдно, что мысли у меня так разбросаны…». А вот, что написала отцу Мария 18 апреля 1915 года: … Я посадила к себе на колени Швыбзика, но он пожелал на пол… Мама посылает Анастасию спать, а она в отчаянии не может найти Швыбзика, который пропал без вести, все его кричат и зовут, но он не идет, мерзавец. Его наконец нашли через 10 минут, мы все его искали под диванами. Наконец Мама решила залаять, и Швыбзик ответил тоже лаем, и оказалось, что он сидит у Мама под кушеткой, и его с общими усилиями вытащили… К нам в спальню пришел Алексей, теперь он лежит у меня в постели и играет с Анастасией и Швыбзиком. Сестры еще спят, Швыбзик пищит, наверное, он хочет видеть генерал-губернатора. Он уже это делал, и Анастасия прибежала с лопаткою от камина и подобрала…».
Письмо Анастасии 14 июня 1915года:
«…А все таки скучно без душки «Швыбзика»…». 
Сестра Николая II, Ольга Александровна написала в письме к племянницам в июне 1915 года:
«Я никогда столько цветов не получала. Санитары мне подарили большую вазу для цветов на стол и написано от кого и 1 июня 1915 г …Так жаль Швыбзика! Плакала ли?..».

Остается сделать вывод, что собаки не стало. Может поэтому Анна Вырубова и дарит Анастасии другую собаку - Джимми.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #226 on: October 04, 2008, 06:26:03 PM »
Yes Victory_L.




I, also, think the pup looks like a Japanese  Spitz

Victory_L.  believes the  dog's name is "Shvibzik".   Does everyone agree?



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« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 06:29:23 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #227 on: October 04, 2008, 06:34:35 PM »
Dog named SHOT???

A mention of Shot in one of Aleksei's letters on the main APTM site:

Oct. 26, 1914
"...Today we are going to make another fire. At 6 p.m. Mother, sisters and I will go to the Palace's hospital. Shot and Ortino [dogs] are playing. The weather is fine but there is very little snow. I stay out of doors for a long time every day and go for drives in the motor-car. I've begun reading stories by cossack Lugansky..."


However, this must be a second dog named Shot, as according to Olga's letter of 18 October the dog had just died. I don't have my Russian dictionary with me, so correct me if I'm wrong in translating Olga's letter thus:

"...Aleksei's Shot died. We buried him today on the island, and he [Aleksei] now has his [Shot's] brother, also [called] Shot."

(Thanks to Laura Mabee for helping with this!)
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #228 on: October 04, 2008, 06:38:03 PM »
Dogs:

Shot, Ortino and Shvybzik are mentioned:

Not ORTINO. ORTIPO!

I've been doing some research about that dog's name, too, and I think you're correct. I'll start a new thread about it when I have a little more information. ; )

No, the name is Ortino.

We have our own copy of Alexei's letter to Nicholas and this is the exact translation we got from one of Bob's people in Petersburg at the time:

Oct.26,1914,  "...Today we are going to make another fire. At 6 p.m.
pp.22,23.     Mother, sisters and I will go to the Palace's hospital.
              Shot and Ortino are playing. The weather is
              fine but there is very little snow. I stay out of doors
              for a long time every day and go for drives in the
              motor-car. I've begun reading stories by cossack Lu-
              gansky..."

here are from Anastasia to Nicholas:

Oct.28, 1914, "...Ortino and Tatyana are running about the room now.
p.44.         Mother is going to receive Maklakov at 9 a.m. and
              Malama will come, too, which is very pleasant. I took
              this picture of myself looking at the mirror. It was
              very hard as my hands were trembling.
              ...I had 7 classes today and tomorrow I am going to
              have 4 or 5... I am having a Russian class now and
              Pyotr Alexeyevich is reading Turguenev's "The Hunter's
              Notes" to us..."

Jan.30,1915,  "...I taught Ortino to sit up and beg and today I've
p.58.         taught her to give her paw and now she can do it. She
              is so sweet..."

March 7,      "...I'm so grateful to you that you allowed us to use
1915,p.61.    your bath. We bathed there yesterday. It was such fun!
              I was the first to go. There was much water. I was able
              to swim around the bath and then jumped down from its
              sides. It was terrific! Then Maria and I played in the
              water for some time but, unfortunately,I had to get out
              soon. Ortino was running about all the time and barking.
              After that Olga and Tatyana bathes and also enjoyed
              themselves!... Mother has already got in her room the
              flowers which you like. You know those blue flowers
              which grow in front of Grandmother's windows. They have
              just opened. Tomorrow is Sunday. It's so good not to
              have lessons when you can lie about in bed longer than
              usual... All of us are kissing you including Ortino
              who is running about here like a mad dog... She is
              such a dear..."

Apr.7,1915,   "...We have just finished dinner. Mother is lying and
p.64.         sisters are sitting nearby. Tatyana is out, of course,
              as usual. Shvybzik and Ortino are lying in Mother's bed
              and sleeping. They are such darlings..."

Several spellings of Ortino are found.

More about Ortino:
As I recall, there were two Ortinos.  The first one was a gift from Dmitri Malama in 1914. He died about a year later in Sept. 1915, and when Malama heard about it, he sent another similar dog to Tatiana in early 1916, which Tatiana also named Ortino.

Telegram, NII to AF
5 September 1915
Many thanks for yours and Marie's letter. Too bad about Ortipo. Just got your telegram...

A note from the editor explains that the family's female bulldog had just died. However, the letter of 17 September 1915 Victory_L. quoted says that "Ortipo" had just given birth, and that the mother and puppies were brought up for Tatiana to see. So unless Malama replaced Tatiana's dog almost instantly with a pregnant female, something is amiss! I'm looking through Sisters of Mercy and so far havent found any reference to the dog dying in September of 1915. According to Greg King there was a reference to Ortino/Ortipo's death in a letter from AF to NII on 5 September, but I've read Alexandra's letter from that date and found nothing.

Other references to Ortino/Ortipo in The Complete Wartime Correspondence:
Letter, AF to NII
28 November 1915
Ortipo is lying on my bed & sleeping fast.


Letter, AF to NII
17 March 1916
My little Malama came for an hour yesterday evening, after dinner at Anias. We had not seen him for 1 1/2 years. Looks flourishing more of a man now, an adorable boy still. I must say, a perfect son in law he wold. have been -- why are foreign Pces. [princes] not as nice! Ortipo had to be shown to his "Father" of course.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 07:03:51 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Victory_L

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #229 on: October 05, 2008, 11:39:06 AM »
Theme "Ortipo"-"Ortino" already discuss, look   http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11782.0

Offline Victory_L

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #230 on: October 05, 2008, 11:42:47 AM »
 Saruchka letter :This is driving me bats -- I've been chasing this question for months and keep going around in circles. Lili Dehn, Valentina Chebotareva, Sisters of Mercy, and Complete Wartime Correspondence all spell the name with a "p". Since it seemed likely they had worked from original documents, I was inclined to trust Fuhrmann and SoM.

Rob, do you have facsimiles of those letters in the IF's own handwriting that you can check? Obviously the name is getting botched in transliteration *somewhere,* and the only way I can come up with to be sure is to look at the IF's actual handwriting in Russian and/or English. My best guess is that the similarity between the handwritten "н" (n) and "п" (p) in Russian is the culprit...

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #231 on: October 05, 2008, 07:14:52 PM »
It might be Pavillion....
Also, These were taken in same day, by Pierre Gilliard:



Another photo of Ortino/Ortipo



1917??
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 07:21:32 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #232 on: October 05, 2008, 07:27:11 PM »
Jemmy's Death:

Quote
Penny,
Our copy of Kudrin's testimony from 1963 says only:

He bent over the tsar.
"The end of the Romanov Dynasty, right?! Yes...
The Red Guard brought out Anastasia's lap dog on a bayonet. When we passed the door to the upstairs, we heard a long pitous wail in the leaves.  It was the last salute to the Emperor of all Russia.  The dog's corpse was thrown beside the tsar.
"Dogs die a dog's death," said Goloshchyokin contemptuously."

The difficulty here is one we had to wrestle with-and we may be wrong-but we believe Kudrin is mistaken in identifying the dog thus killed as Jemmy, i.e., Anastasia's dog (not that his ownership is any clearer since Anna Vyrubova says she gave the dog to the girls in general, not to Anastasia).  This is from memory, but if I recall correctly Kudrin had previously never been in the Ipatiev House-so first one must ask how he knew this was Anastasia's dog?

More generally, the problem is that if we're talking about Jemmy-and if one assumes for the sake of argument that he was thus killed and thrown into the Ganina Mine where he was later found-it doesn't fit with the known facts.  I know nothing of veterinary medicine or forensics, but Summers and Mangold did consult experts for "The File on the Tsar," and they present a pretty strong case that Jemmy, found in the mine in June, 1919, hadn't been there very long, and hadn't been dead very long.  While a lot of their other assertions are no longer valid, this is one of their strongest points, indicating I think that the White investigators probably planted Jemmy's body there to be found.

Based on this-and in reading through their analysis it isn't a huge leap of faith-Jemmy would have had, of necessity, to have survived into spring of 1919.  Since Joy was found in the possession of Michael Letemin, that leaves only one dog-Ortino-that could possibly have been killed on the night of the murders as Kudrin says.  So it seemed reasonable, as someone unfamiliar with the family and their pets, that he simply misidentified the dog killed that night.

This may not be correct, but it accounts for what Summers and Mangold uncovered about Jemmy's condition when retrieved from the shaft-a condition that indicated he had not been dead for long (and perhaps there were suspicions about this, hence the absurd stories that the Bolsheviks built a false floor to conceal the dog, or that Jemmy was frozen in ice-neither of which was true), and also for Kudrin's account of a dog having been killed that night.

As with all things, it is an issue that has to be looked at and examined carefully, especially given the above, and the fact that Kudrin's memoirs contain a number of errors that undermine their veracity.  He was certainly there, but I wouldn't take his identification of the dog as particularly definitive given what we know now about Jemmy's condition.

Greg King


"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Victory_L

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #233 on: October 06, 2008, 07:28:40 AM »
When Greg King written him book? In 1934 г.Yurovski (руководитель расстрела Царской семьи) written: «…Хотя я их предупредил через Боткина, что им с собой брать ничего не надо, они однако набрали какую-то разную мелочь, подушки, сумочки и маленькую собачку (little dog)». По воспоминаниям пулеметчика Дома особого назначения Сухорукова А.А.: «Все арестованные были одеты, по обыкновению, чисто и нарядно. Царь на руках несет своего сына дегенерата царевича Алексея. Царевна дочь Анастасия несет на руках маленькую курносую собачку (carry in hands little dog about short nose), эксимператрица под ручку со своей старшей дочерью - Ольгой.»

Offline Victory_L

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Re: Imp. Family/Romanov's Family's Pets Links List
« Reply #234 on: October 06, 2008, 07:58:34 AM »

 In dokuvents bu N.Sokolov: "Труп собаки самки.

Собака была найдена 25 июня 1919 года на дне открытой шахты. Благодаря низкой температуре в шахте труп хорошо сохранился.

Правая передняя лапа сломана. Череп пробит, отчего, по заключению врача, и произошла ее смерть.

Гиббс показал: “У Анастасии Николаевны была очень маленькая собачка  с длинной шерстью (very little dog have long hairs). Окрас ее был черно-рыжий(black- red-haired)... Ее отличительные приметы были вот какие: у нее были большие круглые глаза; зубы ее были обнажены и постоянно виднелись, язык у нее был длинный и висел изо рта, не помню, на какую сторону. Кличка ее была Джемми. Такие собачки — очень маленькие, и их часто носят на руках. Принадлежала она Анастасии Николаевне dog belong Anastasia Nikolaevna), любили эту собачку они все, а в особенности Императрица. Я сегодня видел собачку у шахты. Я утверждаю, что эта собачка, которую я видел у шахты, и есть Джемми. Я обратил внимание и на ее шерсть, и на форму глазных впадин, и на зубы. Это безусловно она”.

Тутельберг, Теглева и Эрсберг также опознали ее (Tutelberg. Tegleva and Ersberg know body dog).   Why  we  doubt  over 90 year?

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« Reply #235 on: October 06, 2008, 10:42:13 AM »
Victory_L,

I'm sorry,  but most of us do not read nor write Russian.  Could you translate for us, please?

My entry of Greg's posts was to just give us additional information and his opinion.


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« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 10:46:13 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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« Reply #236 on: October 06, 2008, 10:42:55 AM »
I'm new here, but I'd need some help identifying people in this picture. I suppose it was taken at Yalta in 1891, in the silver wedding of tsar Alexander III and Empress Maria Feodorovna.




I believe I've identified some people at the picture:



1 - GD Alexander Mikhailovich (?)
5 - GD Ksenia Alexandrovna
7 - GD Olga Alexandrovna
8 - GD Alexandra Iosifovna (?)
10 - Tsarevich Nicholas Alexandrovich
11 - Empress Maria Feodorovna
12 - GD Michael Alexandrovich (?)




14 - GD Nicholas Nikolaievich (?)
16 - GD Dmitri Konstantinovich (?)
19 - GD George Alexandrovich (?)
20 - GD Konstantin Nikolaievich (?)
21 - Tsar Alexander III
23 - GD Andrew Vladimirovich (?)
24 - GD Vladimir Alexandrovich (?)


Any guess?

Showing this because there is  the large white dog.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 10:44:51 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Victory_L

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« Reply #237 on: October 06, 2008, 01:44:10 PM »
You look translation in text: russian text (next english ) - the is translation importants moments. My english - is not good. Very good translation  Sarushka and Nena! Please, You ask translation their.

Offline nena

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« Reply #238 on: October 06, 2008, 01:56:00 PM »

 In dokuvents bu N.Sokolov: "Труп собаки самки.

Собака была найдена 25 июня 1919 года на дне открытой шахты. Благодаря низкой температуре в шахте труп хорошо сохранился.

Правая передняя лапа сломана. Череп пробит, отчего, по заключению врача, и произошла ее смерть.

Гиббс показал: “У Анастасии Николаевны была очень маленькая собачка  с длинной шерстью (very little dog have long hairs). Окрас ее был черно-рыжий(black- red-haired)... Ее отличительные приметы были вот какие: у нее были большие круглые глаза; зубы ее были обнажены и постоянно виднелись, язык у нее был длинный и висел изо рта, не помню, на какую сторону. Кличка ее была Джемми. Такие собачки — очень маленькие, и их часто носят на руках. Принадлежала она Анастасии Николаевне dog belong Anastasia Nikolaevna), любили эту собачку они все, а в особенности Императрица. Я сегодня видел собачку у шахты. Я утверждаю, что эта собачка, которую я видел у шахты, и есть Джемми. Я обратил внимание и на ее шерсть, и на форму глазных впадин, и на зубы. Это безусловно она”.

Тутельберг, Теглева и Эрсберг также опознали ее (Tutelberg. Tegleva and Ersberg know body dog).   Why  we  doubt  over 90 year?


Dog was found on June 25, 1919 on the bottom of the open mine. The corpse was preserved well because of the low temperature in the mine. Right front paw is broken. Skull damaged, why, on the conclusion of doctor, and occurred its death. Gibbes showed/said: “In Anastasiy Nikolaevna was very small trigger with the long fur. It was black- red… Its distinctive signs were here what: it has large round eyes; its teeth were exposed and constantly they were seen, language in it was long and hang from the mouth, I do not remember, to what side. Its nickname was Jemmy. Those dogs(are) - very small, and them frequently they carry them on the hands. It belonged to Anastasia Nikolaevna, loved this dog they everyone, and as particular Empress. I today saw trigger in mine. I assert that this trigger, which I saw in the mine, and it's Jemmy. I focused attention to its fur, to the form of eye sockets, and to the teeth. This unconditionally it”. [Tutelberg], [Tegleva] and [Ersberg] also identified it.

So - Mr. Gibbes claimed it was Jemmy.
 
Sorry if the translation is bad.....
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 01:57:46 PM by nena »
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« Reply #239 on: October 06, 2008, 02:57:14 PM »
Thank you Nena for the translation.



AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152