Author Topic: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918  (Read 61940 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tsarina_Liz

  • Guest
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #120 on: December 28, 2005, 07:52:35 PM »
I know  :)  I was just saying that if the deaths had happened before hand it might have helped their cause from an international viewpoint.

Offline RealAnastasia

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #121 on: December 28, 2005, 08:50:06 PM »
They could have known that the Ipatiev House was called "The House of Special Purpose", but I didn't know it for sure. However, it's almost sure that they didn't know that Nagorny and Sednev were already murdered.  :'(

RealAnastasia.

Offline carkuczyn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love all things Russian!
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #122 on: August 12, 2006, 02:19:57 PM »
i would like to know how the tsar's mother, sister, uncles, and cousins were rescued.  it seems like, if they could flee the country, then, the tsar and his family could have somehow made it out too.  i don't understand this completely.  i know the tsar was stubborn and naive, but surely he had to see the danger that he and his family were in the longer they stayed in russia.  you would think that he could have made his own escape a bargaining issue for his abdication.  in other words, "i will abdicate the throne as soon as my wife, children and i are safely out of the country."  i think the provisional government would have done it just to be rid of them and not to have to worry about what to do with them.  this really baffles me.  any insights on this?

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #123 on: August 12, 2006, 03:19:03 PM »
They were fortunate not to be killed--even their situation was perilous. They fled to the Crimea--where they had to deal with the local, radical Bolsheviks--and traveled on the HMS Marlborough to Malta, sent along by Queen Alexandra of England to rescue her sister. Dagmar refused to leave Russia prior to April 1919, and only did so after reluctantly recognizing that the Bolsheviks were taking over the entire country. As ex-tsar, Nicholas and his wife and children were much valuable than his sister, mother, or cousins. Therefore, he could not just quietly slip away from the new Bolshevik government as the others might have. The Bolshevik takeover also caused a huge stir in Europe--where could they have gone without causing a fuss? The invitation to England was withdrawn and probably no other monarchy would have taken them in either.

The tsar and his family were virtually prisoners evenbefore he signed the abdication---the train tracks to St. Petersburg were blocked and the family was confined to Tsarskoe Selo. He or them couldn't have gone anywhere, and I dount any of them would have tolerated separation in any form. He also obviously couldn't have predicted that his family would be disposed of so cruelly, if at all--I still can't believe they killed Alexandra and the children. He probably assumed at the worst that they would be political prisoners--confined, but kept alive. Nicholas was a Russian to the very depths of his soul and refused to abandon his country. Unfortunately, he died for it. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 03:35:15 PM by Ortino »

Offline carkuczyn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love all things Russian!
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #124 on: August 12, 2006, 09:04:11 PM »
what a terribly sad, sad tragedy.  the tsar and his family were star crossed from every direction.  it's seems that nothing ever worked out for them.  the only part of their lives that was left untouched was their love for each other.  and that, i think, is what draws us all to them.

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13039
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2006, 09:49:18 PM »
Well, George V (perhaps trying to compensate for his tragic error in deciding to ask the asylum invitation be rescinded) sent the Marlborough along, not Queen Alexandra. She did urge him to and she also pleaded with her sister to leave. There were actually ships waiting for several weeks, I believe, to take the Dowager Empress out of Russia but she was, even at that point, reluctant to leave. Finally, she was persuaded to accept the offer and left, along with Xenia and her family and the Nicolaivichi--Nikolasha & Stana, Peter & Militza and their family, as well as just about anyone else that could cram aboard.

There was a thread on the Marlborough and the events surrounding the Crimean departur

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,1128.0.html
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline carkuczyn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love all things Russian!
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #126 on: August 14, 2006, 12:20:49 AM »
so i am gathering, from what ortino said, that there was never any chance of the tsar or his family escaping.  possibility might have been if king george would not have rescinded his offer of assylum to the imperial family....but that is already water over the bridge.  and the bolsheviks could have made it difficult even if they had been guaranteed assylum somewhere.  is that the general consensus?

Offline carkuczyn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love all things Russian!
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #127 on: August 14, 2006, 12:25:59 AM »
also....is it written about anywhere whether or not the tsar's mother held a grudge against her brother in law, king george, for denying nicky assylum?  i would imagine there would have been some harsh words exchanged at some point.  i try to put myself in her place...and when i do, i think i would have a hard time forgiving him.

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13039
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #128 on: August 14, 2006, 01:20:46 PM »
George V was her nephew, not her brother-in-law. They seemed to have still gotten on well, I haven't ever read anything differently. She certainly spent a lot of time in his company after the Revolution. Maybe she knew and understood the situation, maybe she didn't and thus had nothing to forgive. Didn't she refuse to believe that the family was actually dead anyway?
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #129 on: August 14, 2006, 01:44:38 PM »
Yes, the Dowager Empress was in denial about her son's and grandchildren deaths until her own death. I think she believed that they were rescued and were hiding out somewhere...  I suppose that was easier for her than to accept the truth!

rosieposie

  • Guest
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #130 on: November 02, 2006, 11:49:41 PM »
Hi there,
I don't know if this has been answered before and as I am at an internet cafe I have little time left. I would like to know when did the children realize that they were of high importance/royality?
Thanks
Rosie
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 01:18:01 AM by LisaDavidson »

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2006, 10:06:35 AM »
I am not sure.. I think they would have realized fairly young, because they were not just royalty, but the children of the Tsar of Russia. Alexei, in particular, was always aware of his position, but then he was the heir. I would think they knew fairly soon, but then sometimes when you are a young child, either things overwhelm you with their importance, or seem less important than they are.

Nadya_Arapov

  • Guest
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #132 on: November 04, 2006, 12:56:07 AM »
I would have to concur with Imperial Angel. The Tsar’s children appear to have realized at a young age what and who they were. The Grand Duchesses seem to have been very unaffected by their position. They were given a comparatively spartan upbringing. Hard beds, simple furniture, plain food. Tatiana alone was referred to, by some observers, as being rather haughty. Given that she was very much like her mother, however, it may well be that she was simply uncomfortable with strangers, and her behavior, like her mother's, was misinterpreted.

They were born into a royal family, the life of a Grand Duchess was all they had ever known, and I'm sure it must have seemed every bit as normal to them, as our way of living is to us. It was just a part of who they were. Alexei was a bit different. Where the Grand Duchesses were never allowed to treat people in a condescending manner, the Tsarevich, because of his illness, was allowed to get away with far more. He was usually kind, but had been known to misbehave outrageously. He told several people that he could do, more or less, whatever he wished, because he was the Tsarevich. The Tsar was embarrassed when he did, but never really scolded him.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 01:04:09 AM by Nadya_Arapov »

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #133 on: November 05, 2006, 07:18:39 PM »
All you said is true. I agree about Tatiana, that her behaviour was called haughty, but Alexandra's was often called so, and that was obviously misinformed. We know a bit less about Tatiana's personality than that of her mother, so it is often repeated that she seemed haughty without looking into reasons people might say that, etc. She did however seem very Imperial, and suiting her status, and people never said that about Alexandra, they used haughty only as a negative term, never as a good one. It wasn't remarkable to them about their position, although they acted accordingly with it, and perhaps had their moments of wonder at who they were.

Offline clockworkgirl21

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Re: Imprisonment, Last Days & Death of Romanovs in 1918
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2006, 04:40:10 PM »
I often wonder how OTMAA actually adjusted from living like the royalty they were, to living like they were in a jail. They obviously didn't like it, who would, but they went from one extreme to the other pretty quickly. I would have expected them to think, "How dare they?!" when the guards did things like taking the bathroom door away and grabbing food off their plates. Instead, judging by their letters and diaries, they had the "I'm not surprised" attitude. You may disagree, that's just some of my thoughts. It was probably because OTMA really weren't raised to belief their rank made it okay to believe they didn't have to respect people, and be polite. They didn't even seem to mind doing servent work once Nicholas was overthrown. They of course knew they were the children of the tsar, but the tsar they knew was their loving papa.

About Aleksey, he DID seem haughty in his younger years, but many children are like that who have parents in high places. Even I did when I was a little girl, when my own grandmother was teaching Bible school, I was a downright brat! Even now, I sometimes have to remind my friends to tell me when I'm being bossy.  ::) He grew out of it, especially if the story about him being upset at his father for knowing a 12 year old boy was going to war and not caring is true.

I think all the children all knew their ranks, but didn't believe it actually made them more important than others.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 04:49:04 PM by clockworkgirl21 »