No Stalin, no Hitler?

[Lass]

Well, perhaps it's easier to say - which would you rather have as the dictator for your country?

[olga]

Perhaps Bear is still looking under the bed.....

She never stops.

[AGRBear]

She never stops.

No, I never stop voicing the truth about Stalin,  who betrayed the Russian people.  I do have to give him credit for being a great con man.  Even to this day, many people are fooled into thinking he was was their hero instead of a person who was worst than Hitler.

AGRBear

[rskkiya]

    Agrbear -- well that is your opinion...I may suggest that 6 million jews  might disagree with you ... ohhh well ...  
   It seems that such obstinant rigid subjectivity makes discussions about this sort of thing rather pointless -- what fruit is better; apples or pears?

rskkiya

PS agrb- have you started a branch of  'the Stalin Haters club?'  

[Elisabeth]

Rskkiya, whether you like it or not, Stalin was, numerically speaking, worse than Hitler. You have to wax philosophical - i.e., argue genocide vs. democide - to determine that Hitler was actually worse. Myself, I tend to believe it, but Bear is entitled to her opinion; intellectually, hers is a perfectly valid point of view.

BTW, I don't understand why you are still contributing to this thread, since last time I checked in, you were labelling it "silly."

[Lass]

Well said, Elisabeth.

I started off the thread, and it was intended to be a perfectly sensible question. We certainly have had some much-appreciated sensible answers. I wanted to see the different angles people look at this issue from, and so I respect all opinions voiced in the thread.

[AGRBear]

   

PS agrb- have you started a branch of  'the Stalin Haters club?'  

I will NEVER start any kind of club which spouts hatred toward anyone or anything.

AGRBear

[Robert_Hall]

could have fooled me !

[AGRBear]

   Agrbear -- well that is your opinion...I may suggest that 6 million jews  might disagree with you ... ohhh well ...  
    It seems that such obstinant rigid subjectivity makes discussions about this sort of thing rather pointless -- what fruit is better; apples or pears?

rskkiya

Hilter murdered 6 million human beings*.
Stalin murdered more than 20 million human beings.

These numbers do speak for themselves.

Discussions are never pointless when it comes to talking about the true characters of Hitler and Stalin if it prevents the future Hitlers and the Stalins from gaining power over a nation of people.

AGRBear

*NOTE: Was referring to the number rysskiya gave when giving numbers of Jews having been murdered.  This did not mean the total number murdered under Hitler.

   
...[in part]...
Agrbear -- well that is your opinion...I may suggest that 6 million jews  might disagree with you ... ohhh well ...  
    It seems that such obstinant rigid subjectivity makes discussions about this sort of thing rather pointless -- what fruit is better; apples or pears?

rskkiya
...

[AGRBear]

could have fooled me !

It is not hatred nor revenge I seek.  And, if you have come to that conclusion, then I have not been very clear about where I stand.  What I'd like to see are facts, both good and bad.  Because all facts carry a message of some kind to those of us reading these post.   And, if we can not be honest about the past in our posts today then we've failed not only our selfs but also to all those who follow us in the future.

AGRBear

[Robert_Hall]

You most clearly have failed, at least to me. You express intolerance, misunderstanding and lack of respect for those who have followed other flags in sincere belief  in whatever their perception of "Fatherland" is. Simply because others beileve in a different path, perhaps towards a same goal, does not make them evil or even wrong.
All leaders are fair tragets, but all of those leaders had millions saluting them and following orders to some [perhaps ill-defined] goal.
You, AGRBear, denegrate them and their memory. You should be ashamed in using the anti-Stalin vitriol in your aimless wandering in looking for spooks.
If the powers that be on this forum feel I have been too harsh, they are welcome to delete my post. Otherwise, I stand by what I have said.

[hikaru]

I do not want argue, but I just want to add that during WWII with Hitler about 30 million  Russian people dead
(not 6 million) .
In this 30 million the people who dead in Stalin's camp was not included.
I just wonder why Hilter killed only 6 million?

[Robert_Hall]

My dear Hikaru, ther is no argument. My point is- men [and women] died on many fronts. In many battlefields, many not made of armour and barbed wire.
I feel it is shamefull to put those who fought on a platter of unimportant idealogical chases.
How many bones does one have to dig up to convince some that they are REALLY DEAD ! That no matter how many dances over unfound graves- IT DOES NOT MATTER- they are dust.
The saints do not taste the salt of your tears, they only look above, and taste the sweetness of reward.

[Georgiy]

To my mind, it is not the numbers that are important - it is the intent to wipe out and destroy other people, of which both Hitler and Stalin, along with others such as Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein etc, which is the most awful and horrific thing. That is not to denegrate the people who have been slaughtered, I just don't think it is right to say X killed so many people,but Y killed this many people, so Y is worse. Both X and Y are guilty.

[olga]

I have to agree with Georgi Georgievich.