Author Topic: No Stalin, no Hitler?  (Read 89970 times)

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rskkiya

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2005, 08:49:18 AM »
     After some examination, I too must agree with Georgie--one cannot really argue that a was worst than b anymore than one can argue that pears are better than oranges and anyone who prefers oranges is somehow morally questionable, disturbed or just wrong!
    And it's true I did say this was a silly topic...So sorry to have overstayed my welcome.

rskkiya

Offline Lass

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2005, 09:23:36 AM »
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How many bones does one have to dig up to convince some that they are REALLY DEAD !

We will never know just how many people died because of Stalin and because of Hitler.

Georgiy is right; numbers are not everything. Yet, I think, they are still important.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2005, 10:09:11 AM »
Life is the mirror which reflects all of us so give your best, treat others with respect, and do to them as you would have them do to you, and, the mirror will reflect life as it should be. ¬ The Hitlers and the Stalins of the world did not, do not and will not understand this and that was and is and will always be a tragedy in the history of all mankind.

The discussion "Was the Revolution Good for Russia" can be found over on the following thread:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=revolution;action=display;num=1085981877;start=0

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Michelle

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2005, 10:06:10 PM »
My vote for the more evil person I think would have to be Hitler.  He didn't just kill 6 million people.  That was just the number of Jews he killed.  I believe it was another 6 million people who were gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Slavs, mentally retarded individuals, "political prisoners" (i.e. people who opposed the Third Reich), homosexuals, and the physically disabled whom were added into the equation alongside the Jews.  Of course this only makes about 12 million compared to Stalin's 20.  Yet there's just something about the way Hitler carried out such utterly horrifying genocide that makes me say that he was much worse.  Let's just say I would rather have been someone living under the communist regime (brutal as it may be) than someone who constantly lived under the threat of being gassed in Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka, or any of those other terrifying little pits of hell.

Offline Vera_Figner

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2005, 10:37:39 PM »
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I do not want argue, but I just want to add that during WWII with Hitler about 30 million  Russian people dead
(not 6 million) .
In this 30 million the people who dead in Stalin's camp was not included.
I just wonder why Hilter killed only 6 million?


Glad someone finally pointed this out. Far too often this particular figure is neglected and overlooked in history books.  Thank you, hikaru

Offline lexi4

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2005, 11:26:37 PM »
You are right Vera, it is all too often overlooked.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Lass

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2005, 04:51:09 AM »
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I believe it was another 6 million people who were gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Slavs, mentally retarded individuals, "political prisoners" (i.e. people who opposed the Third Reich), homosexuals, and the physically disabled whom were added into the equation alongside the Jews.

That made me think of something, so I shall throw a spanner in the works ;) and say what is not politically correct...

In today's Western "civilised" society, we will murder the young, infants in the womb. We will murder the old, under the glossy name of "euthanasia". We will murder the terminally ill, supposedly out of "mercy". We will now murder those who are in a serious condition but still with a possibility of recovery.

Take Terry Schiavo as an example. Terry Schiavo's death was murder. Not only was it murder, but it was a barbaric form of murder, i.e., starvation. Not only was it a barbaric murder, but the instruments involved in it were people who ought to be saving and treating human life, not destroying it, i.e., staff in the hospital.

Terry was an ordinary person who had an eating disorder; it was for this reason, at the end of the day, that she was killed. She was a helpless, yet innocent and still very much alive, person. The selfishness of mankind that he should murder those who are a burden to society!

I can hardly understand the blindness of those who will say that we are a civil society when we murder the defenceless, helpless members of our society. These are the people that need our best protection. And yet we look back on Nazi Germany with such apparent sorrow for the atrocities that society committed against its members!

Just what came to mind. :P



Offline Olga

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2005, 05:12:09 AM »
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Terry was an ordinary person who had an eating disorder; it was for this reason, at the end of the day, that she was killed. She was a helpless, yet innocent and still very much alive, person. The selfishness of mankind that he should murder those who are a burden to society!


Terri Schiavo was not normal. She was braindead, with no chance of recovery.


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I can hardly understand the blindness of those who will say that we are a civil society when we murder the defenceless, helpless members of our society. These are the people that need our best protection.


Take for example, euthanasia. Have you ever considered that people who choose this option do not wish to live and do not need your 'protection'?

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And yet we look back on Nazi Germany with such apparent sorrow for the atrocities that society committed against its members!


The Holocaust was committed against living, breathing human beings who had already experienced their lives, and who did not want to die. To place abortion and euthanasia on the same table is ignorant and myopic.

Offline Lass

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2005, 05:29:39 AM »
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Terri Schiavo was not normal. She was braindead, with no chance of recovery.

When I say she was normal, I mean that before she deteriorated into the state in which she died, she was as much a human being as the rest of us, and this did not change when she could no longer communicate in the normal way with other people.

Maybe you are unaware of the fact that the Terry Schiavo actually did have a chance of recovery.

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Take for example, euthanasia. Have you ever considered that people who choose this option do not wish to live and do not need your 'protection'?

In Terry Schiavo's case, she was never asked whether or not she wished to live, and so I do not see what that has to do with this particular case. However, there are mentally ill people who, no doubt, could not care less if they were given euthanasia, because they have not the same ability to reason and comprehend exactly what that entails. Does this mean we simply go ahead and do it anyway? How can the answer be anything, but No?

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The Holocaust was committed against living, breathing human beings who had already experienced their lives, and who did not want to die. To place abortion and euthanasia on the same table is ignorant and myopic.

Did Terry Schiavo want to die?

As for abortion, I wonder that you actually brought that in. What unborn child was ever asked if it wished to be born or to be murdered? What difference does it make that they have not the experience of life outside the womb? Are unborn infants any less 'alive' than adult human beings? To argue that they are somehow not alive is absurd.


Offline Olga

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2005, 06:41:55 AM »
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When I say she was normal, I mean that before she deteriorated into the state in which she died, she was as much a human being as the rest of us, and this did not change when she could no longer communicate in the normal way with other people.


She could not communicate at all. Braindead people do not do that. Her 'communication' with her parents and people around her was the result of reflex actions.

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Maybe you are unaware of the fact that the Terry Schiavo actually did have a chance of recovery.


There are no cases of people in Persistent Vegetative States recovering after more than two years in that state.

Offline Olga

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2005, 06:45:09 AM »

Offline Michelle

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2005, 07:48:33 AM »
Lass, finally a person on this board who MAKES SENSE!!!!!!!! Well, there are others here of course.  But you are very courageous for bringing this up and I agree totally 100% with you! :)
It's practices like this in the USA that I ABHOR and that is definitely a great failure of this country.  These things need to be stopped.  Sometimes I think our society is no better than Nazi Germany. >:( :'(

Offline Lass

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2005, 08:08:22 AM »
Thank you, Michelle! :-*

Offline Lass

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2005, 08:19:41 AM »
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She could not communicate at all. Braindead people do not do that. Her 'communication' with her parents and people around her was the result of reflex actions.

She could smile. I would not call that a reflex action.

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There are no cases of people in Persistent Vegetative States recovering after more than two years in that state.

OK, but what  has that to do with it? You said that Terry Schiavo had no chance of recovery; it is a fact that she did.

I do not know where you are living. I am in Britain, and this is what British law states:

Human Rights Act 1998, which implemented the rights/freedoms stated in the European Convention of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, signed in Rome in 1950.
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Article 2.
1. Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law. No-one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

Article 5.
1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person.


Charter of Fundamental Rights proclaimed by leaders of the EU in December 2000.
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Article 2.
Right to Life.
1. Everyone has the right to life.


EU and British law would appear to agree with me... ::)

rskkiya

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Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2005, 08:35:31 AM »
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 Sometimes I think our society is no better than Nazi Germany. >:( :'(


My (lack of) god Michelle, we agree!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »