People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson

[Annie]

Hi everyone

I'm certainly no expert on Romanov affairs, and I have only read a couple of books about them, but in defence of Felix I'd just like to mention that according to Edvard Radzinsky (Russian historian) Rasputin's actual murderer - the man who pulled the trigger - was Dmitri, and not Felix.
Radzinsky had acces to a lot of new files and information and his biography of Rasputin is a very recent one.
I believe that Felix,however unpleasant a person he may have been at times, was no cold-blooded murderer and, consequently, I find it hard to believe he tried to kill AA.

Karen

Welcome and thanks for posting! Please join us in the Yussoupov forum on this message board in the thread "Felix and Rasputin" where we are discussing just this!

[rskkiya]

   Regarding AA and Felix I am persuated that this story about an attempted attack after her "resurrection" was just that-- a story...Not only is it melodramatic and rather corny, it makes no sense...why would poor Felix- who had such a difficult time planning the execution of a man he hated Rasputin -  then try to kill a woman claiming to be someone that he would have cared about (Anastasia)?

No - sorry- an attempt ...but no prizes for originality or accuracy! Its just too bad that Anastasia means "She will rise again"  

R.

[Evanescence]

Dude! She mad! she many times run on a rooftop naked, i heard this with my own ears [it was on the History on damend] .

JM do you really think Anna is the Grand Duchess?

Plus Felix didn't get close to her. He didn't try to kill her. even i well not get to close to an insane woman.

In the early 1920;s she tried to kill herself! if anyone trys to her , it would have be herself.

[if anyone get upest from reading my message,.. 'sorry' but thats what i think]

If you saw you're whole family's murder wouldn't you go a bit insane at least? This is also common behavior for people who have suffered a brain trauma. I read that on an website...

[Michelle]

Very true, Evanescence.

[Annie]

People also tend to go a bit insane after being injured in grenade explosions in munitions factories and losing their man in the war (like Franziska did)

[Annie]

Sure runs contrary to everything I've ever heard. Why the different info now? Even if there is no record it doesn't mean it didn't happen. In the time of war so many people were hurt and helped anonymously, records were destroyed by bombing and fires, or lost. Wasn't this factory accident what led to her downhill mental health which landed her in the asylum in which she started pretending to be Tatiana and then switched to Anastasia?

[Greg_King]

Sure runs contrary to everything I've ever heard. Why the different info now? Even if there is no record it doesn't mean it didn't happen. In the time of war so many people were hurt and helped anonymously, records were destroyed by bombing and fires, or lost. Wasn't this factory accident what led to her downhill mental health which landed her in the asylum in which she started pretending to be Tatiana and then switched to Anastasia?

Annie, just because it's new doesn't mean it isn't correct.  Penny and myself had the extreme good fortune to be allowed to see FS's complete medical files from 1915-16-1920, which no one had ever viewed before.  And they detail extensively that she suffered no injuries (among a number of other important things).

By the way, AA never claimed first to be Tatiana, then switched to Anastasia-it was a fellow patient who erroneously identified her as Tatiana.

Greg King

[Annie]

And she never claimed to be anyone until the other patient gave her the idea first

I still think there could have been treatment that was not  in her records, or that other records may have been lost or destroyed. Where did this story come from if it never existed?

[Greg_King]

And she never claimed to be anyone until the other patient gave her the idea first

I still think there could have been treatment that was not  in her records, or that other records may have been lost or destroyed. Where did this story come from if it never existed?

Annie-

To be absolutely correct she never claimed to Anastasia until she had been erroneously identified by another patient as Tatiana-the facts don't allow anything further than that statement, so the idea that someone "gave her the idea first" is just opinion.

The records included previous reports, but the important thing is that they confirm that FS sustained no physical injuries, nor in her examination were any marks, scars, or deformations noted during a careful examination (nor in any of the exams that followed over the next 3-4 years).  The story that she suffered these injuries seems to have cropped up in the 1920s when the Berlin police detective attempted to prove that AA was FS, and needed to explain the scars.  Why no one consulted the records during the period before the war I couldn't say, and they were presumed lost after WWII, but were not.

Greg King

[Greg_King]

I believe that is what Annie said. That she never claimed to be anyone (including Anastasia) until the patient said Tatiana, giving her the idea to say Anastasia. In fact, anyone was her exact word.

Well, not quite...Annie said she didn't claim to be "anyone until another patient gave her the idea first."  The structure of that sentence implies that AA only got the idea to claim identity based on what another person said, which is I think wrong.  You can call it semantics if you like, and I know Annie genuinely believes AA was not Anastasia (which is fine, since as far as I'm concerned exactly who AA was or was not is still an open question), but the suggestion is that she (AA) only got the idea after another patient raised the issue, which suggests deliberate fraud; in this case, whatever you think, I don't see any credible evidence of deliberate fraud.

Greg King

[Greg_King]

Well itsn't that what happened? Did Franziska/Anna Anderson/Anastsia Manahan/Mrs. Claus/whoever start claiming to be Anastasia after the patient said she was Tatiana?  

Maybe I'm not explaining this properly.  It's not that she didn't make the claim until after the other patient erroneously identified her as Tatiana-that's a given.  It's the wording-"until another patient gave her the idea first."  That clearly implies that AA only got the idea to claim to be Anastasia after having been influenced by the other patient; the way I read it, Clara Peuthart makes the erroneous claim that AA is Tatiana; AA then gets the idea to claim to be Anastasia.  And that's why I tried to point out that the wording is more reflective of opinion than of fact-the idea that AA would not have claimed to be Anastasia had not CP given her "the idea" first, which no one can say is a certain fact.  I hope that makes sense.

Greg King

[AGRBear]

All this is very interesting about the lack of wounds.  This should be taken over to the Anna and Anastasia thread 2.



AGRBear

PS  Since we're assuming  Anna wasn't Anastasia,  then the scene looks more like "acting" for Anna who would have taken advantage of Yussupov's talking to her, and,  what he did or did not say,  no longer seems to be important, it's what she made of it that helped her case of being Anastasia, that seems to be the point to be considered here.

[Annie]

How is that any different?

That's right, it's the same thing.

AA never said a word about any GD until the other patient did. She only claimed to be Anastasia after crossing off all the other names when handed a list. She never came out and said she was AA until someone else gave her the idea.

As for the wounds, if FS didn't have wounds when her records were last kept then did in 1920, it is very likey something happened to her during her time she was missing. It is also possible she did not seek treatment, or as I said before, was treated anonymously as a "Jane Doe" (and Anna Anderson is the European version of Jane Doe) or the records were lost in WW1.

I really can't see how anyone still holds out any claim for AA being Anastasia, or why they'd even want to.

[Annie]

Look for the last time, I do not hate AA nor do I 'not want it to be true.' As I have stated many times, I was a believer for YEARS, I loved her and her story, felt it deeply and wanted badly to believe it. But with the DNA and other evidence it all seems very unlikely and I realize it was mostly wishful thinking on my part. Yes, I believe anyone who continues to force the issue even now has an agenda. I would much rather the issue of the missing bodies be explored more than one more old tired game of AA being Anastasia.

Also, the possibility of undocumented injuries is not out of the question at such a time of turmoil and upheaval in Europe.


Have a good time in Newark, AnastasiaFan, sorry I couldn't go!

[Annie]

If the DNA tests don't do it for you I don't think anything ever will. As far as I'm concerned, the AA crap is over. She was NOT Anastasia, end of story. There is still the question of the missing bodies and what really did happen to the real Anastasia dead or alive, most likely dead. But constantly trying to prove the AA thing only wastes time for nothing. I know you guys are tight with Kurth and don't want to hurt him but come on. New theory please.