People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson

[AGRBear]

If Penny Wilson,  who has seen all kinds of evidence we will never see, can keep an open mind about Anna Anderson,  why is it so hard for others to do the same, or, allow her the right to do so?

Wilson and King have been most helpful in giving us information which they could keep to themselves and present only in their Atlantis Mag..

Let me thank them both for their generousity.

As they know,  I don't always disagree with them but there is no reason to attack their views.  Use reason.  Use evidence from sources you have which shows why you may disagree.

If FS did not suffer wounds on the day of factory explosion,  did the records show she already had scars?

AGRBear

[Annie]

I AM using reason. The DNA tests prove that AA was NOT Anastasia. Anything denying this is just a grabbing at straws conspiracy theory, either from dreamers (which I used to be) or someone with an agenda. My mind was plenty open until the DNA proved that AA was not related to Alexandra's family. Even FA himself has said this is so.

[Forum Admin]

First, I am NOT the final answer on all things. True, to me, the evidence is indeed compelling beyond a resonable doubt now that Dr Gill's testing was reliable. Dr. Knight's paper really did not, to me, show any tangible basis for doubt. Helen has far more succinctly posted the argument than I could.
THAT SAID, we must leave room for other opinions. I respect Penny and Greg immensely. If they have a reason to believe there may be reason to discuss the issue, they have that right to do so and I for one will make certain that they always have that right in here.

So, please, so long as the discussion sticks to the facts and known evidence, we must respect the right of others to have a different opinion than our own.
thanks
FA

[Annie]

Wow, what a wimp out from your last 10 posts on this subject where you stated emphatically that AA was NOT Anastasia over and over again, that it was impossible.  You were also the one who always used the term 'agenda' to define why anyone would still be pursuing this. If I said what I really thought was going on with this 'agenda' I'd get banned. But I am surprised you turn coats on this. We all know anyone is welcome to say what they want, but I will miss your voice of reason.

[Forum Admin]

Annie,
I do represent the side that believes, totally, that it IS impossible for AA to have been Anastasia. I will never say otherwise.
What Im trying to say, and I have discussed the issue privately with Penny, is that Penny and Greg have done much research into the subject, more than 99percent of those in this forum, and we respectfully agree to disagree on this point.
Just because I will not accuse Penny of pursuing an "agenda" does not mean I have "wimped out" in my support of, to me, the impossiblity of AA being AN. I just defend her right to voice a REASONED different opinion.
FA

[Annie]

Well, let's just say I believe there is a 'reason' for the 'reason' she continues to push this I find it hard to believe that such intelligent, educated, well researched people actually believe something that has been proven to be false, I have to think there is something else behind it, yes, an agenda.

[AGRBear]

King or Wilson,

And,  what new have you found which has caused you to have doubts about  Anna Anderson which Annie has noted?

Wilson wrote:  >>The possibility still exists that Anastasia's fate is tied to that of Fraulein Unbekannt, and to ignore this avenue of investigation simply because some people have decided that it is unpalatable is irresponsible and unreasonable.   Then again, what difference does it make how I choose to spend my efforts? <<

Are you telling  us that somewhere along the line these two, Anna Anderson and the real Anastasia knew each other?

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

If FS did not suffer wounds on the day of factory explosion,  did the records show FS already had scars?   Perhaps scars not found on Anna Anderson???
 
AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Perhaps you'd like to tell everyone who Grossmann was and how many women he may have killed and that he had sold these poor women's bodies as meat from his cart to  the desperate people who were starving.

AGRBear

PS   Oh, wait,  that book is probably still on the shelf and hasn't been boxed, yet.  I'll go get it.

[AGRBear]

I remember the first time I had read there might be a connection between Georg Karl Grossmann and  Franziska Schamzkovski [sp. used in the book] and the possible connection to Anna Anderson.

Book is:
Encyclopedia of Murder by Colin Wilson and Patricia Pitman, Printed 1962  pps. 243-44.

The book tells us that Grossmann was a serial killer who lived in Berlin near the Silesian railway terminus.....  The police found a "trussed-up"  body of a female recently butchered in Grossmann's kitchen.

The serial cases became known as "Die Braut auf der Stulle"  [Bread and Butter Brides" which refers to many of his victimes having been "companions of the night known in Berlin as "brides"].

The police think that Franziska was murdered by Grossmann and the police records show they told Schamzkovski family on 13 Aug 1920 due to the entry in Grossmann's diary.... Yep,  he kept a diary and list of his victims.  The name he wrote was "Sasnovski".

I remember when I read that Grossmann had hung himself in his cell,  I thought,  "Well,  wasn't that conventient for everyone."

It is thought Grossmann may have killed more than 50 females, one of which was FS.

GRBear

[Michelle]

I am utterly appalled and at Annie's rudeness.  Maybe she still does believe in AA but for some odd bizarre reason doesn't want to admit it out of pride.

[AGRBear]

Wilson wrote:

>>The evidence reads that FS was resurrected as a convenient decoy some time after her family had come to grips with her murder.  <<

A "conveniet decoy".

Hmmmmmmmmm,  this kinda puts a lot of thougts in my brain.  


The plot thickens.

Plot?

Now,  who would have carried out such a plot and why?   My eyes seem to be turning toward the photographs of Lenin and Stalin, who didn't want the world to know______...   I could fill in the rest of the sentence,  but I'll let you.

AGRBear

[Annie]

I am utterly appalled and at Annie's rudeness.  Maybe she still does believe in AA but for some odd bizarre reason doesn't want to admit it out of pride.

Ummm, no. 15 years ago I'd have loved to play along but it's beyond that now, and I don't like to see Penny dragging newcomers like you along for a ride that is not real. Sorry that's what gets to me.

I also don't see why any alleged new evidence is more real or more important than what was drug out during 40 years of litigation while the involved parties were still alive.

[AGRBear]

King and I have had this debate about using "old books" to show evidence.   Above,  I used a 1962 book which tells us about FS and Grossmann.   Proving, once again, Old Bears and old books are not to be ignored  
.

AGRBear

[Greg_King]

King and I have had this debate about using "old books" to show evidence.   Above,  I used a 1962 book which tells us about FS and Grossmann.   Proving, once again, Old Bears and old books are not to be ignored  
.

AGRBear

Hey AGRBear-

I think you must have misunderstood what I meant.  I was trying to suggest that, before referring to an older, pre 2003 book on a question about this or that issue and posting "X says in..." that you first check "The Fate of the Romanovs" to see what if anything we may have learned about it, since we tried to examine all previous assertions and theories and look at evidence both pro and con.  It was simply a suggestion to try to save some time.  But I would never disavow the importance of any book in this case-believe me!

Greg King