the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem

[Denise]

I am of the opinion that if you drop it Penny, it gives them what they want.  I say post it--we will create a thread for it (as frankly I find it unpleasant to come to this one).  

And just ignore the comments if they come.  I know it is hard to do that, but if we don't respond to their jabs, then they have nothing to escalate.  

And Penny, at least in my opinion (and I'm sure that Michael and Bear agree) your research experience is invaluable to this forum.  Despite the fact that others may disagree with your arguments, your first hand knowledge of primary resources is something they obviously don't have.  

So please, let's talk about the topic at hand and not give anyone reason to find us at fault in these arguments.  

[Denise]

Hell breaks loose because you can never handle it when others disagree with you! Why can't you see that? If you are not constantly agreed with and coddled, trouble brews.  Please accept that some are going to vehemently disagree with you! It doesn't make you wrong, but you cannot possibly claim to be a historian and expect your views to go unquestioned! That is a major part of the profession, but you seem not to notice this, certainly not to accept it!

And this chimera theory is neither science (as applies to this case), and certainly it is not history.
It is myth! By every definition!

Vera, not Dashkova

(though we do share quite a few opinions, classrooms, sometimes desk space, and more than a few laughs at this website! She sends her best wishes for "getting over...whatever it is" and is so pleased you remembered her!)

Please Vera, let's keep the board on topic. THe FA has asked us to keep things civil.  These types of discussions will only raise more ire.  Can we ALL try to take this type of thing to PM?

(Including me, after this one.) OOPS!

[Vera_Figner]

Please Vera, let's keep the board on topic. THe FA has asked us to keep things civil.  These types of discussions will only raise more ire.  Can we ALL try to take this type of thing to PM?

(Including me, after this one.) OOPS!

Denise,
Much earlier today, I made a very brief post on this thread. Utterly noncombative. Non-jabbing.
And guess what?
I was jabbed! (it's on this thread for all to see)

I'm not one to turn the other cheek.

So, I fire back. The jabb-er is shocked! And outraged! How dare I jab!?  I am told to "take it to PM"
i.e.: "Don't you know it is only I who may insult YOU publicly?"

Can you see what is wrong with this?

I deserve to defend myself as much as anyone else here.

Best advice, which you have alluded to already: If someone disagrees, either AGREE to disagree, or IGNORE.  I have suggested this approach on numerous occasion.  To no avail.

[LisaDavidson]

I offer the following as a suggestion - because I've seen this pattern repeat over and over on the Forum. Someone reads something they don't like/agree with/think is worthwhile - and responds. And then a "war" starts with people posting back and forth - and the discussion is lost. Nearly everyone feels badly in such situations - we moderators, posters, and lurkers. There are never any winners.

My suggestion is, if you read something and it upsets you for some reason - or you think someone is insulting or degrading you - IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO RESPOND.  Sometimes silence is a very powerful statement. I realize that this is asking a great deal, but I have found this is the very best policy for the Forum.

[lexi4]

I offer the following as a suggestion - because I've seen this pattern repeat over and over on the Forum. Someone reads something they don't like/agree with/think is worthwhile - and responds. And then a "war" starts with people posting back and forth - and the discussion is lost. Nearly everyone feels badly in such situations - we moderators, posters, and lurkers. There are never any winners.

My suggestion is, if you read something and it upsets you for some reason - or you think someone is insulting or degrading you - IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO RESPOND.  Sometimes silence is a very powerful statement. I realize that this is asking a great deal, but I have found this is the very best policy for the Forum.

Thank you Lisa. I come here to learn.

[Mgmstl]

Thank you Lisa. I come here to learn.

Thanks, Lexi.  I agree, we all do come here to learn, and to share if we can.  It gets bad when things get out of hand.

Thanks to Lisa also, good suggestion.

[Denise]

Thank you Lisa. I come here to learn.

I totally agree.  

[Annie]

Hell breaks loose because you can never handle it when others disagree with you! Why can't you see that? If you are not constantly agreed with and coddled, trouble brews.  Please accept that some are going to vehemently disagree with you! It doesn't make you wrong, but you cannot possibly claim to be a historian and expect your views to go unquestioned! That is a major part of the profession, but you seem not to notice this, certainly not to accept it!

This is EXACTLY the root of the problem. (it is with Michael too) Whenever someone disagrees or challenges them, they become vicious, post personal insults, to which the person insulted responds, then the ones who started it claim THEY are attacked and play the victim. While they love to blame me, this last fight (and a couple others) have brewed and ensued without me even being here! So it's clear what/who the catalysts of this are, regardless of who else is involved.

[Vera_Figner]

This is EXACTLY the root of the problem. (it is with Michael too) Whenever someone disagrees or challenges them, they become vicious, post personal insults, to which the person insulted responds, then the ones who started it claim THEY are attacked and play the victim. While they love to blame me, this last fight (and a couple others) have brewed and ensued without me even being here! So it's clear what/who the catalysts of this are, regardless of who else is involved.

I am so very delighted to have been a participant in making this EXTREMELY accurate point.  Unfortunately, their character will require this point to be made again, and again.  Unless by some miracle they have learned that the world does not revolve around their opinions and that some people WILL ALWAYS bite back when assaulted.

[Helen_Azar]

Although I wasn't going to post on this ridiculous thread again, I am going to add this post:

Penny Wilson has made some very serious public slanderous (or libelous if you prefer) accusations  against me and my professional integrity yesterday. This woman falsely accused me of lying about "mtDNA in human chimeras" and implied that I am out to sabotage her "research", etc.

My point is that you told us yesterday that chimerism was not possible in human mtDNA....Which leads me to my final point -- that it just might be that much more interesting to some of us because you attempted to hide it from us, and you fed us misinformation yesterday about chimerism in mtDNA.
 

 
I would like an equally public apology and retraction from Penny Wilson for those statements.

These accusations of course are laughable to most reasonable people, but since I use my real name on these boards, this is not a joke, especially since it was obviously meant to undermine my professional reputation.

This is not the first time that Penny Wilson has insulted me, but this is the first time that it was done so blatantly and publicly. I hope that this never occurs again, and I will insist that FA please enforce this, since this is taking place on a  privately owned public board.


P.S. I am also going to ask AGRBear to please refrain from making her half-witted "conspiracy" accusations against me. Even though very few people take AGRBear seriously, I still do not wish to see those kinds of remarks about me here.

[PucknDC]

Lordy Lordy.....You know, I come here to learn and exchange ideas with people that have the same likes as myself. It's not like I can walk around the office and say: " So what do you think about Anastasia....or how about them Tiara's on the Queen"? You are all acting like children in a sandbox....BASTA!!!!!

[Vera_Figner]

Lordy Lordy.....You know, I come here to learn and exchange ideas with people that have the same likes as myself. It's not like I can walk around the office and say: " So what do you think about Anastasia....or how about them Tiara's on the Queen"? You are all acting like children in a sandbox....BASTA!!!!!

Yes, and the bullies of this sandbox are getting some much-deserved comeuppance.

[PucknDC]

LOL Vera...I always like to think that I let all of my spirited discussions be they this site or religion or politics by this maxim: ( I'm paraphrasing) ...." I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"  

[Annie]

I am so very delighted to have been a participant in making this EXTREMELY accurate point.  Unfortunately, their character will require this point to be made again, and again.  Unless by some miracle they have learned that the world does not revolve around their opinions and that some people WILL ALWAYS bite back when assaulted.

*applause!* Thank you for helping point this out!

The problem will not go away until they heed your advice.

[Annie]

Penny Wilson has made some very serious public slanderous (or libelous if you prefer) accusations  against me and my professional integrity yesterday. This woman falsely accused me of lying about "mtDNA in human chimeras" and implied that I am out to sabotage her "research", etc.

She has indeed done this, and other things like this, not just now, and not just to you. She has made some very bad statements to a lot of members here, and I am stumped as to why she is allowed to continue. I have seen 13 year olds on other boards banned for much less than she has done here. I know you have seen the same things I have, I'm just pointing this out to anyone who needs to know.

 

This is not the first time that Penny Wilson has insulted me, but this is the first time that it was done so blatantly and publicly. I hope that this never occurs again, and I will insist that FA please enforce this, since this is taking place on a  privately owned public board.

 

Helen I realize this is your business and I don't mean to interfere, but this action is something that needs to be done for you, for all of us, and for the good of the board. Thank you for taking a stand.