Author Topic: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita  (Read 231695 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2011, 01:58:04 PM »
I wonder if there were pictures of Ducky & Ernie with Queen Victoria.?

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #286 on: November 27, 2011, 02:49:47 AM »

The photo is more likely of August 1895 year when GD Sergei visited his sister Marie in Bozenon, GDss Elizaveta was in Franzensbad while he was with the sister and her family.
The man at very right is Sergei's ADC Konstantin Balyasniy.

The man near Ersnt Ludwig looks very much like Prince Max of Baden.

But Franzensbad was in 1896 as far as I know - and Grand Duchess Elisaweta is in this picture as is her lady in waiting Kitty Kozlianinova



Franzensbad was also in 1895 - in August 21 GD Sergei left his wife in Franzensbad and visited alone his sister Maria in Bosenon till the end of August. In 1896 the Grand Ducal pair was in Franzensbad with Fafka Lobanova, not with Kitty.

Yeah but in the previous photo both the Grand Duchess and Kitty are to be seen - so if it is true what you say it cannot possibly have been taken at Bosenon! U c? :)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:09:01 AM by Thomas_Hesse »
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #287 on: November 27, 2011, 05:07:24 AM »
 

The photo is more likely of August 1895 year when GD Sergei visited his sister Marie in Bozenon, GDss Elizaveta was in Franzensbad while he was with the sister and her family.
The man at very right is Sergei's ADC Konstantin Balyasniy.

The man near Ersnt Ludwig looks very much like Prince Max of Baden.

But Franzensbad was in 1896 as far as I know - and Grand Duchess Elisaweta is in this picture as is her lady in waiting Kitty Kozlianinova



Franzensbad was also in 1895 - in August 21 GD Sergei left his wife in Franzensbad and visited alone his sister Maria in Bosenon till the end of August. In 1896 the Grand Ducal pair was in Franzensbad with Fafka Lobanova, not with Kitty.

Yeah but in the previous photo both the Grand Duchess and Kitty are to be seen - so if it is true what you say it cannot possibly have been taken at Bosenon! U c? :)

Thomas, if we speak about the photo posted above by Carolath Habsburg - there are no GDss and Kitty there. A girl next to GDss Victoria Melita looks like a lady-in-waiting of Duchess Marie (sorry don't remember the name right now). She can be seen in some group photos of the Royal persons and btw in the group photo in Ilinskoe in 1896. Both that lady and Kitty are in the picture. Just compare:

Kitty is second from right (sitting). The lady is 3d from right (standing). You see? ))



So in the picture from Bosenon there's no Kitty. Though can't say who's a woman next GD Sergei.


p.s. That lady looks like GDss Maria Pavlovna-elder, doesn't she? But that's not MP, who was not invited in Ilinskoe then.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 05:37:00 AM by Svetabel »

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #288 on: November 27, 2011, 01:19:52 PM »
As an addition to my previous post - I think that lady (next to Victoria Melita in the picture) is Sophie de Passavant, l-i-w of Duchess Marie and since 1894 l-i-w of Victoria Melita.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #289 on: November 27, 2011, 01:48:28 PM »
Ah okay, so this is indeed not Kitty - but the woman next to Serge is definitely Grand Duchess Ella!
I have never heard the name Sophie de passavant..........

interesting
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #290 on: November 27, 2011, 09:02:23 PM »
Ah okay, so this is indeed not Kitty - but the woman next to Serge is definitely Grand Duchess Ella!
I have never heard the name Sophie de passavant..........

interesting

Well, I'll look one more time to my sources about Ella's presence in Bosenon in 1895. Not sure that's her.

Sophie von Passavant (sorry, I said 'de' but it's not a mistake actually as her family had French roots) is mentioned in the letters between Duchess Marie and her eldest daughter Marie ( Dearest Missy[/i] - the last book by D.Mandache).

The info about Sophie's being l-i-w of Victoria Melita - or her companion - I found in the R.Golicz bio on Duchess Marie.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #291 on: November 28, 2011, 03:42:11 PM »
not sure it was Ella either.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #292 on: November 30, 2011, 04:05:14 AM »
Ah okay, so this is indeed not Kitty - but the woman next to Serge is definitely Grand Duchess Ella!
I have never heard the name Sophie de passavant..........

interesting

Well, I'll look one more time to my sources about Ella's presence in Bosenon in 1895. Not sure that's her.



I've looked through the sources with the chronology of the Grand Ducal pair's travels and the fact is that:

August 21 1895 GD Sergei left for Bosenon alone as his wife had to finish her cure in Franzensbad. He was visiting Bosenon till the end of August, then left for Italy  - alone with his ADC - and only in mid-September he and Elizaveta meet in Darmstadt.

That photo was taken in August, before Sandra's engagement to Ernst von Hohenlohe. There is a family photo of newly engaged couple with Duchess Marie and GD Pavel,  M-lle Passavant and others, where Duchess Marie is in the same dress as in the photo we speak about. I don't think that she would wear the same dress a year after if we imagine that the date of the photo is 1896 (when Ella indeed visited Bosenon with her husband).

So, I still don't think that's Ella in the photo.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #293 on: November 30, 2011, 12:12:30 PM »
I often wondered what Ducky thought about Ella. She was close enough to see Ella's personality more closely than her sister Missy, who openly idolized her.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #294 on: November 30, 2011, 02:35:26 PM »
How much did she really see of her? She wasn't allowed to live in Russia following her marriage until 1909--by which point Ella had entered the convent. Other than that, just the visits to Darmstadt, I guess.
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #295 on: November 30, 2011, 11:35:29 PM »
How much did she really see of her? She wasn't allowed to live in Russia following her marriage until 1909--by which point Ella had entered the convent. Other than that, just the visits to Darmstadt, I guess.

Ersnt Ludwig and VM visited 2 or 3 times Russia and also lived in Moscow for some days.I can dig out the dates of their visits.

Can't say exactly what Elizaveta thought of VM but I think her opinion would be a similar one of her husband - as she always supported him in his opinions and actions. Sergei itself doesn't write much on personal subjects in his diaries, there are some lines about the divorce of EL and VM and a story about VM's behaviour at the funeral of her daughter Elisabeth.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #296 on: December 01, 2011, 05:28:16 AM »
They deifintely visited Moscou in 1901 - there is a huge pretty photograph of Princess Elisabeth in front of a canon. It is signed in cyrillic letters dated and bears the mark "Moscou".

How did VM behave at Elisabeth's funeral?
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #297 on: December 01, 2011, 01:35:07 PM »
They were quite close during VM's marriage to Ernie. It was Ella who wrote to VM on the kind of clothes (especially trains used on their gowns) during the many balls and reception during the coronation of Nicky & Alicky.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #298 on: December 01, 2011, 02:20:53 PM »

How much did she really see of her? She wasn't allowed to live in Russia following her marriage until 1909--by which point Ella had entered the convent. Other than that, just the visits to Darmstadt, I guess.



Well , their visits were: November-December 1895 - they visited St-Petersbourg and Moscow. Then - 1896 - the Coronation festivities. And January 1901 year.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 02:22:47 PM by Svetabel »

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig & Grand Duchess Victoria Melita
« Reply #299 on: December 01, 2011, 02:36:22 PM »

How did VM behave at Elisabeth's funeral?

I meant to drop 2 sentences about this but now I see it's better to post the letters of GD Sergei to Nicholas II and Elizaveta Fedorovna to GDss Xenia A.
I'll translate and post them.