Author Topic: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)  (Read 9933 times)

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AlexP

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2005, 08:39:34 PM »
Quote
Actually,
The friend she lived with in Buenos Aires was my Tante Lilly. They were partners in the cosmetics firm. Her daughter, Odette, told me that all the servants were required to address her formally, as was Odette, and that Odette lived in fear of Maria, as she was cold, aloof and demanding. Now, Tante Lilly had a different side of her to tell me about, and was devoted to her.


Dear Rob,

Yes, I stand corrected  It was a cosmetics firm. If you can though, please check with Mme Odette.  I could swear that they also made beautiful day-dresses on a "haute couture" basis for the ladies of Buenos Aires and that the business alone was not cosmetics.  This is one instance where I really wish that my mother were still alive.  I am sure that she could testify to this fact.  She may have owned one. Or perhaps I am in error.  

Dear Tante Lilly would have benefitted from years and years of personal relationship with the Grand Duchess, and do not forget, but in regards to her station in life, Tante Lilly would not have been regarded as inferior by the Grand Duchess.  Not at all. Of that I can assure you and I am sure you are aware of that anyway.  Both were Ancien Regime.  Both came from good families.  And there is one point Rob, that you perhaps you should consider.

What is Tante Lilly's bloodline?  I say this for a reason.  The Romanovs were relatively newcomers to the Great Families of Russia.  They were boiarii.  They were still barbarians when the fortunes and good names of the other good families had been settled.    There was of course, court precedence, as settled by Peter the Great in the Table of Ranks, created a la Louis XIV, to firmly establish the Romanov dynasty.  But nonetheless, there was also primacy and supremacy of bloodline.  Even in the Emigration, these distinctions remained clear.  For example, a Trubetzkoy or an Obolensky or a Galitzine or a Sherbatov did not have to compete with the Romanovs.  There was no competition between a Rurikii and a Romanovii.  That was a foregone conclusion.  And I write all of this to urge you, if you can and if it is possible, to consider Tante Lilly's bloodline.  That also allowed a degree of intimacy with Maria Pavlovna.  These are distinctions and matters that are no longer considered but they were decidedly considered then.

Rob, I side with you here.  The Grand Duchess was not a book figure to us, but a living person.  She was indeed referred to as "Vuestra Alteza".  People indeed did have to curtsy to her upon entering and leaving the room.  She arrived last at all Church services, for example, and she left first.  She imposed this.  She venerated the Holy Cross first at the end of the services.  When she was given communion, she was NOT given communion as is the Orthodox custom by "the servant of God Maria", she was communied "as the Great Princess Maria Pavlovna" according to Imperial tradition.  She insisted.  She was NOT given "abrazos" and did not take to being touched.

I am sorry that Mme Odette has been disparaged elsewhere here.  It pains me.  As to the report by the Argentine newspaper reporter, it was for an Argentine newspaper that was regarded as a one of the worst Buenos Aires muckraking scandal sheets, full of lies, and lies, and lies, and whose reporters spent time in jail under the Peron regime for seditious behaviour, and for "outrage to public order and Argentine morals".  Odette is not discredited here at all, but this particular reporter and his newspaper are.  Eventually, it was shut down entirely.  It is very important that when we cite cites, we present the entire picture.   Consider both the source and the reporter.  One cannot stand without the other.  Would you cite an article from The Daily Enquirer or from Scandals of Our Times?  Please.  And again, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Mme Odette, a woman also of breeding and good morals, would make such statements.  People of that class of people just did not do things like that.

Next, indeed Rob, you are entirely correct.  With the exception of your Tante Lilly, the Argentines considered the Grand Duchess a "sagrado terror".  More than aloof, exceptionally politely demanding, formal to a degree that even surprised the Argentines with their inherited 19th century Spanish formality.  She was treated with great deference by the emigre community in Buenos Aires, particularly the community gathered around the Holy Trinity Cathedral on Parque Lezama in Barrio San Telmo, but she was not beloved. There was notable event at which she insisted that she would arrive at the Opening Night of the Teatro Colon (the wonderful old Buenos Aires Opera House where Caruso and Tetrazzini sang) after the President of the Republic, meaning last.  It didn't fly.  So she didn't go much to Opening Nights after that.

With all the best dear, Rob, and I hope you can perhaps give us some information on Tante Lilly's bloodline.

With all of the best,


A.A.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AlexP »

Finelly

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2005, 08:52:28 PM »
Nope, don't know Odette.  I can only imagine that it was a horrible experience.  Marie did not like young people and was very awkward with them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Finelly »

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2005, 09:15:41 PM »
Odette is a delightful lady...I met her several times here in San Francisco and she was always extremely informative, enlightened and willing to help one's research.

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Finelly

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2005, 09:45:07 PM »
My e-mail address is alexander.pouschkine@laposte.net.  My profile is there for you to read.

Next, this e-mail address was provided to Lexi4 in a private e-mail and is the e-mail box of a family friend who is a LAWYER in New York City, if you must know.  I was receiving so many disturbing communications from Finelly, from Lexi4, from Anna and from others that it had been decided that I would provided my American's lawyer e-mail box so that he could review and consider each of the e-mails and whether any action might be appropriate




The yahoo internet message name is on AlexP's profile on THIS website.  It is not an email address.  It has been on his profile on THIS website since he became a member.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Finelly »

Inquiring_Mind

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2005, 09:48:04 PM »
This was a place to remember....now it is a place to forget.

lexi4

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2005, 12:26:50 AM »
Back to Maria Pavlovna.
Could anyone suggest some good biographies I could read about her?

Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2006, 03:35:23 AM »
I've been trying to get a copy of these at a decent price for ages!

I think I've found one on ebay, but it's called 'Things I Remember'.  I thought GD Marie's memoirs were called 'Education of a Princess' and 'A Princess in Exile'.  Is 'Things I Remember' a different book, or is it one of the other books, just with a different title?

Thanks for any help anyone can give me!

Rachel
xx

Offline Marlene

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2006, 10:42:56 AM »
Things I remember is the UK title for Education of a Princess
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna's memoirs (3 books total)
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2006, 12:40:21 AM »
Abebooks.com has copies of Education of a Princess for as little as $1, Princess in Exile for as low as $12 and Things I Remember. All 3 titles frequently come up on ebay as well.
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