Author Topic: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children  (Read 173232 times)

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Offline ashanti01

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2005, 10:28:19 AM »
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From what a close friend of mine John Kendrick has told me, that Cyril was a hypocrite. He broke his oath to the Czar during the Russian Revolution when he gave him the title of Head of the Palace Guards to watch over the Czar's wife and children. He abandoned his post and marched with the other troops during the revolution. What he committed was treason which could have caused him death for defying a Czar. Anyways his mother Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna the elder did not like the Czar or his wife and tried to plan a nasty plot on the Czar in 1916 to get Cyril on the throne. Anyways after a London Court in 1924 proved that the Czar's brother Michael was dead he had the nerve to call himself " Czar of Russia-in-exile" What a loser!!


I completly agree with you. I don't believe any of Cyril's decendants have any right to any sort of claim on a throne that Cyril helped get rid of when he turned on the Tsar. Granted Nicholas was the best Tsar, but still treason is treason.

Offline jfkhaos

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2005, 10:38:39 AM »
Kyril's mother did convert years after she was married into the Romanov family from what I have recently read.  When Ella married into the family, Miechen was glad to have a fellow princess who did not renounce her German Lutheranism for the Russian Orthodox faith, and she was highly upset when Ella did eventually decide to convert.

Offline felix

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2005, 11:13:54 AM »
Cyril was a snake! Like his Mother! And most likely his wife!

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2005, 12:02:38 PM »
So if she converted several years after the birth of her son then Victoria Melita and Kirill could not proclaim themselves Tsar and Tsarina in exile then, right?

Also, when did Victoria Melita convert to the Russian Orthodox church? Was it before or after her marriage?

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2005, 12:12:09 PM »
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.
As I stated above, Princess Tatiana Constantinova renounced her right of succession when she married ... and Nicholas refers to this right in the official document of her renouncement.  Her mother was Lutheran.


Was this really just symbolic--women couldn't assume the throne? Much like people today go to the Queen for permission to marry even if they're like 100 people removed from the throne.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2005, 12:16:14 PM »
Just out of curiosity--say for the sake of argument Kyril was perfectly entitled to the throne (questions of Orthodoxy, marriage etc aside). Shouldn't the 'throne' then have passed from his son Vladimir to the next male dynast since Vladimir had only a daughter. I know he decreed she had the right of succession but it seems kind of sneaky to bypass the females in Nicholas' family--namely Xenia and her children who were born of a very acceptable match--for the reason she was a female and then just *poof* change the Pauline law. Of course it's really moot since I doubt there will ever be a restoration.
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Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2005, 01:11:32 PM »
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Just out of curiosity--say for the sake of argument Kyril was perfectly entitled to the throne (questions of Orthodoxy, marriage etc aside). Shouldn't the 'throne' then have passed from his son Vladimir to the next male dynast since Vladimir had only a daughter. I know he decreed she had the right of succession but it seems kind of sneaky to bypass the females in Nicholas' family--namely Xenia and her children who were born of a very acceptable match--for the reason she was a female and then just *poof* change the Pauline law. Of course it's really moot since I doubt there will ever be a restoration.


Seems to me GD Ella that if we stay in the male line (pure discrimination) then the crown should pass to Paul Illinsky and his sons (currently of Palm Beach, Florida and Cincinnatti, Ohio) not Xenia because she is a woman and the crown cannot pass to or through a women per Pauline Law.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2005, 01:36:02 PM »
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Seems to me GD Ella that if we stay in the male line (pure discrimination) then the crown should pass to Paul Illinsky and his sons (currently of Palm Beach, Florida and Cincinnatti, Ohio) not Xenia because she is a woman and the crown cannot pass to or through a women per Pauline Law.

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Well that was kind of my point.  :)  The closest survivors to NII--his sisters--were excluded because of the Pauline Law but Vladimir felt able to dispose of it for his own daughter. At least Xenia and her descendants would come down directly from the last Tsars. But if we don't go backwards (in theory only) then it should've passed from Vladimir to the next male anyway.
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Offline ashanti01

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2005, 02:15:47 PM »
It sounds like there are several reasons why Victoria Melita’s and Kyrill's descendants  would have no right over any claim to the Russian throne ( if there was one.)

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2005, 02:38:03 PM »
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Was this really just symbolic--women couldn't assume the throne? Much like people today go to the Queen for permission to marry even if they're like 100 people removed from the throne.


Nonetheless, women did have succession rights under the semi-Salic system so where indicated, female dynasts had to renounce these rights upon marriage. Just as those unlikely to inherit the throne must ask HM the Queen for permission to marry.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2005, 10:51:26 AM »
I have always wondered, Was Ducky in love with Cyrill or in love with Russia.  I do not understand what she saw in Cyrill.

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Alicky1872

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2005, 11:08:11 AM »
Well, love is blind as they say... I know Ducky's sister Missy referred to Cyrill as "the marble man" because of his apparent lack of emotions, but maybe around Ducky he was a different person all together. Some of us put on a cold front to the world, sometimes because we're shy, or because we don't want to be hurt...but at home around our loved ones, we're very different people, aren't we? (Just thinking of Alix, and Queen Mary to name a few...)

If I remember correctly, they fell in love at Nicky's coronation, when Ducky was still married to Ernie. Since they were cousins, they would have been pretty close to begin with, but since D. was in the middle of a loveless marriage, maybe she confided in C. and he supported her. It was probably a combination of the heady excitement of the coronation, and the fact that she possibly felt admired by a man for the first time in her life. (While I love Ernie, I think everyone would agree it wasn't exactly a match made in heaven...) Maybe Cyrill was a very passionate man!  ;)

To answer your question about whether she was in love with Russia--I think to a degree, yes. It would have been romanticised in her eyes, from stories her mother (Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna) would tell her, and Ducky would have only been there for great family occasions and  holidays, so then she would have seen Russia in it's best (and most exciting) light.

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2005, 01:43:07 PM »
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If I remember correctly, they fell in love at Nicky's coronation, when Ducky was still married to Ernie. Since they were cousins, they would have been pretty close to begin with,  


I always thought that they had been in love before Ducky married but because the Orthodox Church forbade marriage between first cousins theyt had to abandon one another. I suppose the coronation just re-lit the old flame!

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Maybe Cyrill was a very passionate man!  ;)
 


Maybe he was...but he looks about as passionate as a cold rice pudding!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2005, 03:04:16 PM »
I think she was as much in love with being a Romanov as she was Cyril and nothing wrong with that.

Ducky was not very English (as was Marie of Romania) and after the Hesse "mess" she really wasn't very German.  Off all the Edinburgh/Coburg children, Ducky seems to me the most Russian.

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2005, 04:58:47 PM »
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I always thought that they had been in love before Ducky married but because the Orthodox Church forbade marriage between first cousins theyt had to abandon one another. I suppose the coronation just re-lit the old flame!


Yes, that's correct. I should have said that the coronation was when they really rekindled their love for one another.

While I'm no fan of "The Marble Man", I've always thought this picture shows his softer side...

holding his baby daughter Marie



Ducky and Cyrill together