Princess Sybilla

[grandduchessella]

The pressure for her to deliver a boy, a coming King, was enormous. So when she gave birth to four girls in a row, it wasn't easy for her.

Until the rules were changed to allow for Princess Victoria to become Queen in her own right, the need for a male heir was dominant. The pressure can be seen based on the following situation when Sybilla was married:

GUSTAF V (1858- 1950)

GUSTAF VI ADOLF (1882-1973
Gustaf Adolf Oscar Fredrik Arthur Edmund, Duke of Westerbotten 1906- 1947); m. 1932 Sibylle of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1908-1972)
     Margaretha b.1934
     Birgitta b.1937
     Désirée b.1938
     Christina b.1943
     CARL XVI GUSTAF b.1946 (after 12 yrs  marriage)

Sigvard, Duke of Uppland, renounced his titles and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (1907- 2002); m.(1) 1934 (div 1943) Erica Patzek (2) 1943 (div 1961) Sonia de Robbert (3)  1961 Marianne Lindberg [So both his marriages had been unequal and he'd alrady been divorced once]

Ingrid (1910- 2000); m.1935 Frederik IX of Denmark (1899- 1972)

Bertil, Duke of Halland (1912- 1997); m. 1976 Lilian Davies (b. 1915)

Carl Johan, Duke of Dalecarlie, renounced titles and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (b. 1916); m. (1)  1946 Kerstin Wijkmark (2) 1988 (div?) Countess Gunilla Wachtmeister af Johannishus [Married unequally shortly before Carl Gustav was born creating a lot of ill-feeling in the family since the pressure was mounting for a male heir]

That was Gustav Adolf's children. Then you go to his brothers:

William, Duke of Södermanland (1884- 1965); m. 1908 (div 1914) GDss Marie (1890- 1958)
 
      Lennart, renounced his rights and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (1909- 2004); m. (1) 1932 (div 1972) Karin Nissvandt (2) 1972 Sonja Haunz [He already contracted an unequal marriage]

Erik, Duke of Västmanland (1889- 1918) [never married]

Then going back to Gustav V’s brothers, his brother Oscar had renounced his rights to marry a commoner. Carl had married Ingeborg of Denmark and but only had one son (Carl Jr). Carl Jr, Duke of Östergötland, renounced his rights and was granted the title Prince Bernadotte by Albert I of Belgium 1937 (1911- 2003); m.(1 1937 (div 1951) Countess Elsa von Rosen (2)  1954 (div 1961) Ann Margareta (3)  1978 Kristine Rivelsrud. So he was ineligible.

So you can see for all the men in the family there weren’t a lot of heirs. It was somewhat reminiscent of George III and all his sons yet no heirs when Princess Charlotte died. Prince Bertil (if you look at his date of marriage) performed a great sacrifice. He was in love with Lilian (who was from Wales) but because of the dearth of heirs put off marrying (which would’ve meant renouncing his titles and thus becoming ineligible) until after his nephew was married. For this sacrifice, which prevented him from having children of his own, when he did marry, Lilian was granted the title of ‘Princess’ (which apparently annoyed his other siblings who’d had to renounce but oh well) and is still a beloved figure in the Swedish family and often seen at family events. Apparently she is seen as a grandmother figure to CPss Victoria, Prince Carl and Princess Madeleine.

[Finelly]

Sybilla was one of those women who was incapable of nurturing others.  She was unable to cope with the loss of her husband, though there isn't much evidence that she was madly in love with him.  In short, once he died, she pretty much abdicated responsibility for raising the kids.  Swedes do not appreciate that.
They also did not appreciate her Nazi heritage.  Although Sweden was not occupied by Germany, it was a real possibility.  Germany was hated during the war and afterwards when the crimes against the Jews were discovered.  Compare Sybilla to Wahlenberg, who actually saved Jews and fought the Nazis.  
Sybilla's memory is not revered and I'm suprised anyone is interested in her!

[grandduchessella]

Just out of curiosity, are you Swedish Finelly?

[Finelly]

Yes, I sure am.  Born and bred, but I live in the U.S.

[frederika]

i think some people are intrested in her as there is no information on her i seem to have an intrest in infamous royals maybe i just belive that most people are not that bad if we can understand them more. :-/

[grandduchessella]

Yes, I sure am.  Born and bred, but I live in the U.S.

Thanks. It'll be nice to have another Scandinavian viewpoint on here since we have a whole thread on those monarchies now.  

[Finelly]

I'm thrilled to have finally gotten my act together and joined this board, after lurking for a long time!

As you probably know, Swedes have a like/ridicule (as opposed to love/hate!) relationship with our royals.  I've always followed the news - I remember collecting magazines with covers of Sylvia with the newborn Victoria long, long ago (even though I'm only, um, 29!)

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

What did Sybilla think of morganatic marriage? Was she against it? She seems a very rigid person.

[stepan]

What did Sybilla think of morganatic marriage? Was she against it? She seems a very rigid person.

I don´t think it´s  fair to say she was a rigid person. I think she was often misunderstood here in Sweden. I think she was rather shy ,not a sponanous person and  she never learned the language very well. Also the pressure on her to get an heir was great. I think inside she was a warm person but had difficulty to show it. And then came the nazi period and the war and being german wasen´t easy . Her father was much involved with the nazi regime.( He was born English and grandson of Queen Victoria but was chosen at the age of 15 to become duke of Saxe-coburg-Gotha) So I don´t think it was very easy for her. And then after the war her husband died and she was left with five children to raise. I think she resembles a lot to Alexandra Feodorovna who also never got very close to her people and was much misunderstood.

[Finelly]

I agree in part.  She never did learn the language.  She was very restrained and had a hard time adapting.  She did go thru some pretty bad times.

On the other hand, it's not like she had to raise the children by herself.  She had plenty of nannies, etc.  She had no real obligations in the court.  She isolated herself and didn't take advantage of the friendships and support that were offered.

And, really, what Swedish biographers and court-watchers ever thought she was a good person, simply misunderstood?  I've never read of any.  I recall in several Swedish magazines when she died, there wasn't a ton of sympathy for her...

[Lucien]

Don't feel all that sorry for the girl,she could have learned the language but she thought that she was the top and didn't have to make an effort,she well could have but didn't.A cold,scheming woman and mother,and even more so after her husbands death realising she would never be Queen,she became a drama-queen instead.
Nonetheless,here's their wedding pic,I'm sorry,I just strongly dislike this woman,look at that face....
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1075447830&str...

[Rebecca]

The reason why princess Sibylla was never popular in Sweden is due to a mixture of different causes. She spoke Swedish badly - if this was because she did not think it was necessary to learn it (which is an opinion you hear very often) or if it was because she simply did not have the ability to learn it or if it was of any other reason I guess she was the only one to really know.

I don´t remember her at all as she died years before I was even born, but I´ve asked questions about her to my parents (my father passed away last year), other relatives and other people who remembers her, and it is rather striking that nobody, and I mean, nobody, has anything positive to say about her. Descriptions like "stuck up", "cold", "rigid" and "arrogant" are plentiful.

It is true that some of her family were Nazis, for example her father, duke Karl Eduard (Charles Edward) of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Probably her brother Hubertus was one as well. He was killed in action on the east front in 1943. It was said that he was her favourite brother (maybe because they were close in age, her being born 1908 and him 1909). Her brother-in-law (first husband of her sister Caroline Mathilde, "Calma") was also killed in the war (but he and Calma was divorced by then). I don´t know if her other brothers were in the German forces, but maybe someone else knows? She also said in an interview many years after the war that she did think that Hitler could save Germany. Then she added: "We all thought so."

Whether Sibylla herself sympathized with the Nazis or not is a matter of debate. She did attend charity meetings and - parties with the unhidden purpose to collect money to be sent to Germany arranged by either the German embassy, other Germans living in Sweden or Swedish people with strong Nazi sympaties (I read this somewhere a long time ago, but stupidly enough I have forgotten where, otherwise I would have given a source for this).

Her husband, prince Gustaf Adolf, is sometimes said to have had Nazi sympaties as well, but this is a very hush-hush subject in Sweden and very little is known for sure. There are photos of him with Göring and I have seen at least one with him shaking hands with Hitler (not that this is any real proof of Nazi sympaties, but still it is embarrassing, of course).

It is also true that there were strong anti-German feelings in Sweden towards the end of the war and after it. To a little extent this may explain why Sibylla was never popular in Sweden, but it can not explain it entirely, especially since she was unpopular even before.

Yes, there was a heavy pressure for her to deliver a boy, and she finally did it, after having had four daughters. However I do not think that this really mattered in the question of her (non-existant) popularity.

Her daughters were extremely popular even before their little brother was born, and thousands of girls were named Margareta, Birgitta and Christina in the 1930's to 1960's in Sweden because of them (for some reason the name Desirée did not become popular).

Princess Sibylla is more or less forgotten amongst the younger generations in Sweden. If you ask a school student who the King´s mother was, there is a big chance (or risk) that you get the wrong answer or, even more likely, the reply: I don´t know.

[Rebecca]

By the way, Sibylla is said to have met Gustaf Adolf at a wedding in England, probably the wedding of her cousin lady May Cambridge to Henry Abel Smith in 1931. It is also said that Gustaf Adolf´s sister Ingrid had persuaded him to attend the wedding (as she wanted him to meet Sibylla).

[crazy_wing]

Nonetheless,here's their wedding pic,I'm sorry,I just strongly dislike this woman,look at that face....
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1075447830&str...

Sybilla was quite cute when she was a little girl but yes, she did grew up to be rather mean looking...  

[bell_the_cat]

By the way, Sibylla is said to have met Gustaf Adolf at a wedding in England, probably the wedding of her cousin lady May Cambridge to Henry Abel Smith in 1931. It is also said that Gustaf Adolf´s sister Ingrid had persuaded him to attend the wedding (as she wanted him to meet Sibylla).

Thanks Rebecca, for the Swedish view on Sibylla.

My guess is that she was already a bit embittered by the time she came to Sweden. Her father had a very bumpy ride in the Duchy of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha. It sounds like a small place, but the politics were very complicated! For one thing Coburg and Gotha are separated, about 60 km apart, and were quite different. Gotha was a rapidly growing industrial city and Coburg a provincial backwater. The Duke had to reconcile these different interests and defend himself from accusations of being pro-English (ironically). The unpleasantness of the job certainly contributed to the early death of Queen Victoria's son Alfred. Charles Edward of course lost his throne in 1918, but unfortunately continued to be involved in local politics. He saw the Nazi connection as a way of restoring his position (at least in Coburg).

Having had to defend himself against accusations of being pro-english, he became an ultra German nationalist.

By the way the name is Sibylla (or Sibyl) in English as well as in Swedish - I had to look it up though, as it was driving me crazy reading the alternating spellings on this thread!