Author Topic: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews  (Read 67010 times)

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Offline Gabriella

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2008, 04:13:32 PM »
Thanks for the information about Ernie meeting Waldemar and Sigismund at Friedberg in 1910.

Is there any possibility that htey had met later when Irene's sons had been adults?

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Gabriella.

Russka Princess

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2008, 10:14:10 AM »
i dont know about that

but i wanted kas how was the Relationship  between,Ernie and his nephew and his nieces, ? i mean :OTMAA, Waldemar and Sigismund(Irenes`sons)Alice,Louise,Dicki and George(Victorias`Children)

i know now, that Ernie and Dicki was very closer to each other and with OTMAA but what is with the others ?


Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2008, 01:23:23 PM »

In the biography on Grand Dule Ernst Ludwig of Hesse I read that in 1891 Nicholas II - then Tsarevitch - visited Darmstadt and stayed at Friesberg Castle (were the Imperial Family lived during its 1910 stay) for the maneuvres. This means that it was just after his journey to Otsu etc and that he met his future wife not for the last time in 1889.
Can anybody confirm this?

Offline Helen

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2008, 07:57:02 PM »
This is an interesting question. Manfred Knodt wrote that Nicholas stayed at Friedberg in 1891 as a guest at manoeuvres. [M. Knodt, "Ernst Ludwig", pp. 139-140] Unfortunately, he did not provide a date for this visit.  Knodt's biography, the on line "Amtspresse Preussens", Nicholas' letters to his mother, Alix's letters to Ernst Ludwig, and those to her friend Toni do not confirm that such a visit took place. 

If this visit did take place, it must have been after Nicholas' return from his world trip.  On 1/13 August, Nicholas' mother wrote to him that she envied Grand Duke Sergei for being the first to welcome Nicholas back and that she herself expected/ hoped to see Nicholas in two days, after an 'interminable and painful separation'. A visit to Darmstadt or Friedberg would not have taken place before the second half of August.

I have no access to Nicholas' full 1891 diary, but based on the information I found in papers, I doubt Nicholas travelled to Friedberg in the late summer or autumn of 1891:

"The Times" of 21 and 24 August reported that the tsar, tsarina, Nicholas, and Xenia had arrived in St. Petersburg from Peterhof and had left for Copenhagen on board the new Polar Star on 22 August.

In the second half of August, Alix was in Darmstadt. She left Darmstadt with her father at the end of August to see the manoevres at Romrod - no mention made of Friedberg.

"The Times" of 7 September 1891:  the tsar and tsarevich and others had a hunting party at the island of Hveen on Saturday 5 September.

"The Times" of 12 September 1891:  "DENMARK. COPENHAGEN, SEPT. 11. The army manoeuvres will take place during the coming fortnight on the island of Fuenen. One of the two divisions will be armed with magazine rifles, the other with Remingtons. The transport by railway and steamer of tho 15,000 men of all arms has begun. It is anticipated that the Czar and Cesarewitch will accompany the Danish King and Crown Prince to the manoeuvres. - A Correspondent."

The "Amtspresse Preussens" mentioned 'Kaisertage' in Kassel around 11-13 September 1891, and then Kaisermanoeuvres near Muehlhausen and Schlotheim (Thomas-Muntzerstadt, Thueringen) later in September of that year. The latter manoeuvres were too far to the east to be the manoeuvres meant by Knodt. No mention was made of Nicholas visiting Hesse.

"The Times" and the "Amtspresse Preussens" reported that Alexander III, his wife and Nicholas and Xenia were itill in Copenhagen when Grand Duke Paul's wife died on 24 September 1891. They passed through Berlin on their way back to Moscow to attend the funeral. After the funeral, the tsar and tsarina, with their family, left St Peterburg on board the Polar Star to return to Copenhagen ["The Times" of 5 October 1891]. They stayed there for about a month: the tsar and his family intended to leave Denmark on 29 October and to travel to Livadia with the Danish royal  family for the tsar's silver wedding anniversary [the "Amtspresse Preussens" of 23 October 1891].  No mention was made of Nicholas stopping at Friedberg or Darmstadt.

"The Times" of 21 Ocotber: "BERLIN, OCT. 20. It now seems certain that the Czar will visit Berlin on his way to Livadia. As is usual, a considerable amount of mystery surrounds the details of the journey, contradictory reports being received from St. Petersburg and Copen hagen. A telegram from the latter city states that his Majesty, accompanied by the Czarina, tbe Cesarewitch, the Grand Duchess Xenia, the King and Queen of Denmark, and the Princess of Wales, will leave there on the 29th inst. on board the lmperial yacht Polar Star for Dantsic, going thence by rail to Berlin. In spite, how ever, of the semi-official source of this informa tion, I have good reason to believe that it is not exact, and that the Czar will arrive in Berlin on Thursday afternoon next. He will reside during his stay at the Russian Embassy. Regarding the duration of his stay nothing is yet known, but it is not expected that it will be a long one. - Our Own Correspondent. "

"The Times" of 17 November: "Prince Damrong arrived yesterday at Yalta, South-West Russia. He was greeted on landing by the Cesarewitch, who accompanied him to Livadia, where he was received by the Czar and the Russian Grand Dukes. "

"The Times" of 7 December: "ST. PETERSBURG, Dec. 6. Yesterday's official Gazette publishes the Imperial ukase appointing the expected committee to deal with the effects of the famine, under the presidency of the Heir Apparent. ... The rescript concludes with an expression of the Czar's conviction that his son will find strength in his deep love for the people and the country to fulfil the public obligations thus laid upon him. ..."

"The Times" of 21 December 1901: "The "Petit Parisien" publishes intelligence from St. Petersburg stating that the Cesarewitch, being detained in the capital by his duties as president of the Famine Relief Committee, will not be able to visit France next month, and will not now come to Paris until February next. The journal adds that his Imperial Highness will remain in the French capital about ten days, and will then proceed to London to be present at the marriage of the Duke of Clarence and Avondale. "
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 07:58:34 PM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline Teddy

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2008, 12:58:44 AM »
I have no access to Nicholas' full 1891 diary, but based on the information I found in papers, I doubt Nicholas travelled to Friedberg in the late summer or autumn of 1891:
/quote]

In the Moscow Archives, the diary of Alix' can maybe deal with this question. (The last diary of the Tsaritsa Alexandra).

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2008, 01:52:20 AM »
Thank you for that very detailed research!
I don't know when the Hessian manoeuvres usually took place - except that it was "in Autumn". August seems quite early to me. Are there any other mentiones in the letters? If the Russians were in Germany in October it might be possible that they even crossed Darmstadt/Friedberg - even if it was for a day or at least some hours. The diaries of Ludwig IV. would be a final source in that case.

I do think - by the way - that Knodt refers to Friedberg by mistake for - as you have pointed out - the maneouvres usually were held at Romrod. On the other hand he writes about manoeuvres in the Wetterau too and that Friedberg served as residence for the family...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 01:54:49 AM by Thomas_Hesse »

Offline Helen

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2008, 05:32:39 AM »
Oh yes, manoeuvres were definitely also held at Friedberg. Alix wrote about them to Toni B. from Friedberg in September 1893.

From what I read in The Times and the Amtspresse Preussens, I don't get the impression that the Russian royal family stopped long enough in Germany to attend manoeuvres in Hesse. They were travelling with the Danish royal family and - if I am not mixing up dates - had about ten days to get to Livadia and get unpacked and ready for the tsar's silver wedding anniversary. Then why would they take a roundabout route and 'drag' the Danish royal family with them to Hesse? Nicholas may have wished for an opportunity to see Alix, but his parents did not really want him to marry Alix and had no reason to go and see manoeuvres near a small town, out of their way, knowing that it would - or might - give Nicholas an opportunity to meet Alix again.

If you think the days from 29 October to early November might be the time frame when this visit took place, you could check Ludwig IV's diaries, but you could also check the Darmst├Ądter Tagblatt or Darmst├Ądter Zeitung - on microfilm at the archive - or some local Friedberg newspaper.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline amartin71718

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2009, 10:35:22 PM »
How long was the IF in Germany during their 1910 visit?
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Offline Helen

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2009, 01:47:21 AM »
According to an end note in Erinnertes, they stayed in Friedberg from 30 August 1910, moved to Wolfsgarten on 24 October and left Wolfsgarten on 14 November.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2010, 10:05:31 AM »
Ernie with little Tatiana :



Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2010, 05:05:23 PM »
I think on another thread we agreed it was Olga...

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2010, 06:03:10 AM »
No we did not - it is Grand Duchess Tatiana!

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2010, 06:39:51 AM »
Eric , some memory refresh...

Probably one of the most enchanting photographs ever to be taken of a loving uncle!
Ernst Ludwig and his little niece Grand Duchess Tatiana, Wolfsgarten 1899

 http://statearchive.ru/assets/galleries/437/180.jpg

Yes I agree. I think it was Olga though...

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=90.360#quickreply

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2010, 02:38:04 PM »
Still think it was Olga not Tatiana.l

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his nieces & nephews
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2010, 02:53:25 PM »
For god sake...


THIS is Olga  at that time, same year, same place (Darmstadt)



See the differences? if you dont , please buy eyeglasses.

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

Join the cause "We want an Ignore button