Author Topic: Favorites and Least Favorites  (Read 142360 times)

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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Your favorite Wittelsbachs
« Reply #270 on: June 23, 2009, 06:07:57 PM »
My favourites are

Carl-Theodor "Gackel" and his daughter Elisabeth (later Queen of the Belgians)
King Ludwig II

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Your favorite Wittelsbachs
« Reply #271 on: June 23, 2009, 06:50:37 PM »
Why do you admire them?

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Your favorite Wittelsbachs
« Reply #272 on: June 23, 2009, 06:51:24 PM »
My favorite is Sissi, her life is very interesting, but the lives of her sisters & mother are interesting too, although some of them are a little bit unhappy  for example Sissi’s and Sophie’s lives. :-(

aor

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #273 on: June 24, 2009, 07:50:10 AM »
I do not dislike Archduke Rudolph, I believe he was very intelligent but not given a job to do with this intelligence. So he directed his 'energy' elswhere, with dramatic results! Who or what caused the end result could be taken in debate. I believe we will never know the truth.

I don't care much for the Archduke Albrecht, Empress Elisabeth, Archduke Otto or Archduke Karl Ludwig and there are a few others, these come to mind.

Imperial_Grounds

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #274 on: June 24, 2009, 09:12:16 AM »
Archduchess Sophie, certainly not like her. As said she was to domineering and refused to leave the spot-light when Elisabeth came in the pîcture as Empress. In my opinion this was one of the reasons the Imperial Couple had such a bad marriage. It started good but Sophie's influence, among other things, left a bad mark on it.

As for Crown Prince Rudolf. I don't dislike him, I recognise much of his mother in his character. His melancholic part, depressions, the awful marriage, his liberal and free spirit towards another policy then his fathers. He, like his mother, loved to write and longed for death. Many historians tell that Rudolf saw Mary as a chance to be happy again, but I believe that Rudolf was too depressed and chose Mary to die with him. After all he asked Mizzi Caspar, the rumour goes he even asked his wife, to die with him. But wether he really killed Mary and himself is to be on debate for years - though I believe he did it. The only thing we know is that Rudolf and Mary did not share the tragic love displayed in movies, plays and musicals. It is indeed dramatic, romantic and so sad but just not reality. Mary loved Rudolf indeed, she adored him as an idol and was pleased to share his fate. But wether Rudolf loved Mary as deeply as movies show we will never know. The evidence all is destroyed and the only people who know why cannot tell it anymore, neither they would do that.

Ella1886

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #275 on: June 24, 2009, 10:05:13 AM »

If you're disgusted by the behaviour of Archduchess Sophie, you should check out  Sophia Dorothea (?) the wife of George I of England and how she was treated by her mother-in-law, husband and his mistress.


Offline synnadene

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #276 on: June 24, 2009, 10:35:57 AM »

I can't say I dislike Sophie because beeing a strict mother-in-law, because then I have to say, that Elisabeth too was a terrible mother-in-law, and far from beeing a good mother...

Imperial_Grounds

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #277 on: June 24, 2009, 10:43:55 AM »

I can't say I dislike Sophie because beeing a strict mother-in-law, because then I have to say, that Elisabeth too was a terrible mother-in-law, and far from beeing a good mother...

I agree completely on this, Elisabeth had her faults too. But somehow I like her much more over her mother-in-law. I guess Elisabeth chose to not get her hands into the marriage of her son because she knew how badly she had experienced her own mother-in-law's tricks. But then again indeed she wasn't a great mother, yet she tried to make that good with Marie-Valerie. But indirectly Sophie is again to be blamed because she insisted on taking care of the children and this made Elisabeth estrange from her children.

Ozymandias

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #278 on: June 24, 2009, 01:42:02 PM »
I like Emperor Franz Joseph.
I don't dislike Sissi after all she was the Empress, but she comes across to narcissistic if you know what I mean.

Offline synnadene

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #279 on: June 24, 2009, 02:04:56 PM »

Ozymandias, you are completely right. I can't "forgive" her, that she didn't allow to photograph her together with her children... (even with Valerie)

Clelia

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #280 on: June 24, 2009, 02:53:37 PM »
I feel the same that Ozymandias about Empress Elisabeth. I don´t dislike her but there are some things about her that are not nice, such as her being so self-centered and distant from her husband and eldest children. Anyway, I love seeing her photographs and it's a pity, as synadenne says, that she was never photographed with Franz Joseph or the children, except for the very well known group shot.
And I don't dislike Archduchess Sophie either, I think that she was doing what she felt was the best.

Offline Princess Susan

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #281 on: June 24, 2009, 03:58:23 PM »
I like Archduchess Sophie, she is one of my favorite. I think she was good-hearted woman, devoted mother and uniqe strong personality. Maybe too strong, so that Sisi was able to bear it. Because she was strong personality as well. Sophie liked Elisabeth, I don't belive, that was so terrible mother-in-law. Far more better, then Elisabeth ever was to Stephanie.
But I consider Elisabeth for uniqe woman too. Unfortunately for people in her suroundings she was also too egocentric.

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #282 on: June 24, 2009, 04:12:05 PM »
Well said, Princess Susan! I feel exactly the same way. As I stated in the thread devoted to Archduchess Sophie: "I don't think that Archduchess Sophie actually disliked Elisabeth, at least not at the beginning. As I understand it, she considered her niece/daughter-in-law too immature and poorly educated for the position of Empress and decided to try to help her to live up to the strict Habsburg court etiquette. Sophie probably thought that she was being kind to Elisabeth, but needless to say, Elisabeth saw things differently and began to resent and hate her aunt/mother-in-law, thus their relationship deteriorated pretty quickly. While the situation was clearly unpleasant for Elisabeth, I don't think that there was initially any deliberate malice or unkindness on the part of the Archduchess. Just my humble opinion!"

Offline Princess Susan

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Re: Your favorite Wittelsbachs
« Reply #283 on: June 24, 2009, 04:13:14 PM »
My Favorite are:
Carl Theodor,
Sophie of Alencon,
Marie Sophie of Two Siciles.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Do you dislike a Habsburg?
« Reply #284 on: June 24, 2009, 09:58:36 PM »
Empress Maria Theresa - more specifically as a mother.  She played favorites, mostly 'ignored' her other children in their younger years,  played one against the other, demanded total obedience without seemingly giving much thought as how hard her children's situation were. She set spies on them, admonished them severely even for minor faults, and interfered incessantly in all aspects of her children's lives until she died (except with her favorite Mimi perhaps). MT also ruthlessly sacrificed them for reasons of state - in this she wasn't an exception of course, but look at how her precious alliance with France/the Bourbons turned out (she was extremely dissatisfied with it).  She also had a blind hatred for Frederick the Great and caused the Seven Years War , therefore sacrificed everything-and certain family members- in her tenacious need for revenge. In that (war and alliance) she greatly, grossly miscalculated!  She preached one thing to her children yet did the opposite in reality.  She may have been a good head of state but as a mother I do not admire her at all.  MT may have thought she was doing her best regarding her children and she may have had the best intentions (and her children were also a handful, w/ many faults of their own)  but it seemed obvious that her tactics/style weren't working. I wish she could've tried things differently (and perhaps would've had more positive results in her dealings with them).  All just my opinion, of course.     :)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 10:23:29 PM by prinzheinelgirl »
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