The State Bank of the Russian Empire

[james_h]

  I have a rather sick little obsession with rank and wealth. That is to say I like to try as best as possible to rank all the families of the Russian empire according to their pre-revolutionary wealth. It has proven a fools task. Information is extremely elusive.  


Is there anyone who visits this website that lives in Moscow and speaks fluent Russian?

I'm thinking, if it is at all possible to access the Russian State Archives of the State Bank of the Russian Empire.
Particulary during the governance of I.P. Shipov. Most of the aristocratic Dynasties would have repariated their money during his tenure and if records and bank statements are avaliable it would be for me....a historically financial wet dream

So if anyone out there agrees to partake of this challenge....would they be so kind as to post the results in a private message to me.

I'm not much of a spy but could perhaps give you a few espionage pointers.

Goal: The Names and Account Balances of the wealthiest 200 subjects of Tsar Nickolai II would be what I'm after.

[David_Pritchard]

Dear James,

Are you looking for a 'cash on hand' figure or an annual income? I think that you will find it difficult to determine a total assests figure as so many of the richest families wealth consisted of land, agricultural assets, rents, palaces, artwork, jewels etc. It is rather like determining the wealth of Queen Elizabeth II when so much of her property consists of national treasures that would never be permitted to be sold. I would think that even if you found a figure from the bank it would only be an estimation.

David

[james_h]

 David, you are clearly wiser than I.

You are probably right. You must hear the oft repeated "Yusupovs were the richest in russia"
the problem with that statement...wheres the hard concrete evidence?

I understand that if ones family has alot of wealth, you diversify eg. Land, Property, Art, Stocks and Investments, cash and Jewels et cetera clearly that makes it hard, perhaps even impossible to come to a hard concrete definitive list. But that cannot be the end of the issue....surely.

I think that the Romanovs were indisputedly at the top of the list, by which ever method one chooses to access wealth.

I WANT A LIST!

Because the Stroganoffs were not as "Showy" as the Yusupovs can it really be assumed that they were poorer?  
What of the Cheremetevs, they have the rather dubious distinction of being the largest slave owning family in human history, when in their prime owned 210 000 adult male serfs, presumably as many female slave aswell taking the tally to damn near 500 000 slaves!!!


Even if I could just have an approximate list of the Grandee Families ie.
Vorontsov
Cheremetev
Stroganoff
Yusupov
Golitsyn

I realise this is probably futile, but there must be a number of academics on this forum, maybe one of them could offer some help. Actually David you sound as though you may be one yourself.

Best Wishes
James

[james_h]

David

F.Y.I.  they do estimate Queen Elisabeths wealth, every year in fact....

According to Forbes a poultry

Queen Elizabeth II
Queen, U.K.
USD$720 million


Forbes aren't the only ones to take a stabb at her wealth....


Sunday star times 2004 estimate

USD$438,140,018.59


I would assume it is not including anything she is unable to sell eg. the art etc.... Which cannot readily be believed to BELONG to her, she is effectively merely caretaker for some things.

But with aristocrats it's much easier. Everything they own they are free to sell.
I have read that one Third of every thing in the Hermitage used to Belong to Zenaide Nikolaevna Yussupova. That would be worth a substantial fortune. Plus all of Russia oil is on land that used to belong to her, so  that easily adds another $15 Billion (Based on the number of Russian Billionaire through oil)

Plus I realise times have changed eg. Pre Revolutionary Russia with lots of wealthy People, the most valuable aristocratic Palace would probably have been the Stroganoff Palace on Nevsky Prospekt. Because of it's Architect, location, artistic merit etc.... I imagine it would have been snapped up readily, it even inspired an imitation palace -  Beloselsky-Belozersky Palace, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[David_Pritchard]

Do remember that when calculating family wealth as in the case of the Golyitsyn's one should divide the pie between the very large number of family members. Other familes that you did not mention that had amassed great fortunes were the Demidovs and the Tretyakovs.

It is interesting to say that the Romanovs were the richest family but what exactly was theirs in a personal capacity and what belonged to the state? This did not become an issue until after the revolution when faimly members tried to claim foreign properties that were titled in the name of Nicholas II. Foreign governmets found the Emperor's foreign assests quite easy to seize for the repayment of war loans to the Russian government as he was after all the Sovereign and Autocrat, thus indistinguishable legally from the government to which the loans were made.

David

[David_Pritchard]

One should not forget the foreigner who held the largest assests in Russia, though I do not know if these were sold by the time of the Revolution. Alfred Nobel owned vast tracts of the Baku oil fields, producing kerosene and other petroleum products.

David

[james_h]

Thats were it's easy the Cheremetev, Stroganoff and Yusupov adopted the common European custom of giving virtually everything to the eldest son. Not Sure if the Vorontsovs followed suit but I know that the Golitsyns did not.

So You merely have to discern the total wealth of the respective heads of , Yusupov, Stroganoff, Cheremetev

The Golitsyn fortune would be the Total family fortune of everyone with that dynastic surname. I suspect it would be rather large as they all appear to have had more money than most.

With the Vorontsovs....Depends on how they Inherited their money.

The Demidov were certainly wealthy but not as prestigious in my eyes as the others...I would rank them even with their title along with the Morozovs, perhaps.

[David_Pritchard]

One should not forget the foreigner who held the largest assests in Russia, though I do not know if these were sold by the time of the Revolution. Alfred Nobel owned vast tracts of the Baku oil fields, producing kerosene and other petroleum products.

See: http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/23_folder/23_articles/23_oilbarons.html

Accoding to this site, the Nobels also had oil production in Kazakhstan: http://www.atyrau-city.kz/Eng/index_e.php?oilgaz_e.html

David

[james_h]

Thankyou David I knew none of that!

What is  31 million in 1986 Sweden crowns in todays USD$?

god there I go again.

[David_Pritchard]

I assume you mean the Morozovs, the textile magnates, in Moscow, who lived in the Moorish style mansion at ulitsa Vozdvizhenka No. 16 across from the present day Arbatskaya Metro station.

David

[james_h]

The very same