Author Topic: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants  (Read 173462 times)

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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2007, 03:55:01 PM »
Yes, Learning, I agree that the Federal Republic has found a political system that works well, even if it is a republic and I think after all that happened before we should be very thankful about that. However, it is strange that there was hardly any attempt made to restore the monarchy in Germany and even in German literature the subject hardly receives a mention (i.e. there seems to be no German equivalents of, for example, Joseph Roth and Stefan Zweig, who so lamented the passing of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...or at least none that I can think of). Perhaps it is due to the less centralised structure and the fact that the unification of Germany took place relatively late, thus the German Empire only existed for less than fifty years......

Thanks for merging the threads Grandduchessella!

Noble_descendents

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2007, 09:13:39 PM »
Hi Learning!
Herzog Carl does very good work and I think that is the reason why he is popular.  He is a very quiet and self-effacing sort of person (or at least that is my impression of him). Herzogin Diane is far more vivacious and outgoing. Among other things he is involved in the German Red Cross and the Society for children with cancer, as well as being an  Ehrensenator (Honorary Senator??) of the Eberhard-Karl University in Tübingen and the University of Hohenheim. However, I think he is popular in the same way as, for example, Manfred Rommel, former Lord Mayor of Stuttgart and son of General Erwin Rommel (the desert fox), as Manfred Rommel is a real character and a very “down to earth” person who did a great deal during his time as mayor of Stuttgart (1974 to 1996). Thus Herzog Carl is popular for himself and what he does, rather than for the fact that he is a Duke and head of the former royal family of Württemberg and I have never heard anyone express any interest in a restoration. I obviously cannot speak for other German former royal families, as I am not familiar with them, but I think that the House of Württemberg is quite happy with its present situation and has more than enough to keep it busy with the various estates (farms, forests and vineyards), business concerns as well as charity and heritage work.

Strangely enough I know absolutely nothing about the present head of the House of Baden, Max Markgraf von Baden, other than the fact that through his mother he is the nephew of the Duke of Edinburgh. Do you know anything about him? I note that he is called after his grandfather, who was the last imperial chancellor of Germany and presided over the dissolution of the Hohenzollern Empire and the inauguration of the Republic. The government's efforts to secure an armistice were interrupted by the outbreak of revolution in Germany in the first days of November 1918. The then Prinz Max of Baden, realizing that the Kaiser would not be able to retain his throne, urged him to abdicate in order to save the monarchy itself, but the Kaiser refused, despite the urging of Paul von Hindenburg and Wilhelm Groener of the General Staff.  Prinz Max thus announced the abdication without the Kaiser's consent, and resigned in favour of Friedrich Ebert on 9 November 1918. This was immediately followed by the proclamation of the German Republic. I find it one of those odd coincidences that Friedrich Ebert was also from Baden (he was born in Heidelberg).

Cheers,
GREENOWL



Greenowl

As your knowledge of the Kaiser linage is shown, I would ask your understanding of the following questions.

1. You mention Prince Max von Baden asked Wilhelm 11 to step down but when he declined not to do so, Max von Baden announced Wilhelm's  abdication without his consent.

2. What authority did Max have over Kaiser Wilhelm 11, were their families related by blood line.

3 The 2nd question asked is because Wilhelm 11 inhereited certain genetic markings, as did Max von Baden inherit the same.

4. The markings that become visible also were seen on Wilhelms mother, Vicky Queen Victoria's Daughter.

5 . I have mentioned said ancestor genetic markings that make up the genetic bloodline of some royals, also were inherited by a few of other related dynesties, but because of DNA tests are about to be conducted shortly on one lineage, I cannot say or should not say until DNA tests are concluded and results puplished, then I will if asked provide facts of such inhereited markings. 

Thank you

William Ebert

noble_descendents.bloodline@yahoo.ca


Offline Greenowl

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2007, 07:40:07 AM »



The original text of Prince Max of Baden's announcement of the Kaiser's abdication on 9th. November, 1918/Erlaß des Reichskanzlers Prinz Max von Baden über die Abdankung des Kaisers:

Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König haben sich entschlossen, dem Throne zu entsagen.
Der Reichskanzler bleibt noch so lange im Amte, bis die mit der Abdankung Seiner Majestät, dem Thronverzichte Seiner Kaiserlichen und Königlichen Hoheit des Kronprinzen des Deutschen Reichs und von Preußen und der Einsetzung der Regentschaft verbundenen Fragen geregelt sind. Er beabsichtigt, dem Regenten die Ernennung des Abgeordneten Ebert zum Reichskanzler und die Vorlage eines Gesetzentwurfs wegen der Ausschreibung allgemeiner Wahlen für eine verfassungsgebende deutsche Nationalversammlung vorzuschlagen, der es obliegen würde, die künftige Staatsform des deutschen Volk, einschließlich der Volksteile, die ihren Eintritt in die Reichsgrenzen wünschen sollten, endgültig festzustellen.

  Berlin, den 9. November 1918.
Der Reichskanzler.
Prinz Max von Baden.

Note that the text is formulated to indicate that it was the Kaiser himself who made the decision to abdicate (i.e. "Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König.... haben sich entschlossen").

Prince Max was acting in his role as head of the government (i.e. "Reichskanzler") and was trying to sue for peace and obtain a ceasefire in order to avoid a complete German collapse on the western front and the outbreak of revolution on the home front and was urged to make such a move by the OHL (the general staff). Whether that position gave him the authority to over-rule the Kaiser in such matters is a moot point (and I suspect that it did not). The fact that he lied about the Kaiser's willingness to abdicate does not, however, seem to have had much bearing on the situation, which is interesting to consider, as it appears to illustrate either how helpless Wilhelm II was OR how little support he had.

I am no expert on genealogy, so I have no idea whether Prince Max was related by blood to Kaiser Wilhelm II. However, he was  related by marriage, his wife being Princess Marie Louise of Cumberland Hanover.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 07:45:40 AM by Greenowl »

Offline allanraymond

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2007, 08:06:19 AM »
This is possible the closest relationship.

Max and Wilhelm 11 were second cousins once removed.

Max's greatgrandmother (via his mother Princess Maria Romanovsky) was born Princess Charlotte of Prussia (1798-1860).

Wilhelm II's grandfather was King Wilhelm I of Prussia (1797-1888).

Wilhelm I and Charlotte were brother and sister.

Allan Raymond



2. What authority did Max have over Kaiser Wilhelm 11, were their families related by blood line.

Thank you

William Ebert

noble_descendents.bloodline@yahoo.ca



Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2007, 11:56:24 AM »
In addition, Max was the heir to the Baden throne that was occupied by Wilhelm's aunt and uncle, Louise & Friedrich of Baden. Their surviving son, Friedirch, didn't have any children so the throne passed to Max. Grand Duchess Louise was the only sister of Wihelm's father, Kaiser Friedrich III and she was very close to Wilhelm & Dona. Max could've become his brother-in-law, had Margaret of Prussia's affections been returned. Instead, he remained one of Margaret and her husband's closest friends.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline allanraymond

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2007, 04:30:40 PM »
My understanding is that Max was was Heir Apparent to the Throne of Baden but he renounced all claims to the Succession for himself and his heirs on 22 November 1918, coincidentally with the Abdication of Grand Duke Friedrich II of Baden. So I suppose rather than the throne passing to Max he simply became head of the Grand Ducal House of Baden.

Allan Raymond

In addition, Max was the heir to the Baden throne that was occupied by Wilhelm's aunt and uncle, Louise & Friedrich of Baden. Their surviving son, Friedirch, didn't have any children so the throne passed to Max.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2007, 05:05:11 PM »
Sorry, I should've been more precise. Of course, you're correct, I was thinking of the pre-WW1 time and should've said that the throne was intended to pass to him as the next male rather than it actually did.
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Offline Adagietto

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2008, 02:57:13 PM »
Louis Ferdinand, who became head of the family in succession to the Crown Prince after his elder brother married a commoner.






Marriage to Princess Kira of Russia


Kira with Kaiserin Hermine; a particularly nice photograph of her I think.


Offline CharlotteSometimes

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2008, 06:28:43 PM »
Kira does indeed look lovely there--I've seen a few candid shots of her on Ebay this week, but they are way too pricey (100.00-250.00) and not near as attractive as the one above.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2008, 09:15:01 PM »


Note the portrait of their common ancestor, Queen Louise of Prussia in the background. She was their common great-great-great-grandmother.

Louise--Wilhelm I--Frederick III--Wilhelm II--Wilhelm--Louis Ferdinand
Louise--Charlotte (Empress Alexandra)--Alexander II--Vladimir--Kyril--Kyra
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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ArchDss Louise-Henriette

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2008, 12:39:35 PM »
Louis-Ferdinand c.1930


Offline Lucien

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2008, 01:27:28 AM »
HRH Prince Georg Friedrich was in The Netherlands this week,opening the exhibition "The Emperor and Europe" at Huis Doorn.
HRH Prince Christiann Sigusmund,his uncle,was in attendance at Doorn.

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=29-05-2008%20Doorn

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.

Je Maintiendrai

Offline Lucien

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2008, 01:28:15 AM »
HRH Prince Georg Friedrich was in The Netherlands this week,opening the exhibition "The Emperor and Europe" at Huis Doorn.
HRH Prince Christiann Sigusmund,his uncle,was in attendance at Doorn.

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=29-05-2008%20Doorn

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.



Tryed to add the link to the exhibit,but that won't work,for one reason or another,sorry.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 01:30:55 AM by Lucien »
Je Maintiendrai


Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2008, 11:17:49 PM »
thanks Lucien! Georg is looking quite good in the photos. Did he comment on WII during the ceremonies?
HerrKaiser