Author Topic: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants  (Read 173383 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #180 on: March 04, 2014, 10:19:12 PM »
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #181 on: March 04, 2014, 10:54:29 PM »
Yes. You are right. She did became a Princess (and so were her 2 daughters), but she was very low key & lived quietly after her husband's death.

Offline Превед

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #182 on: March 05, 2014, 12:38:19 AM »
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.

Neither of them were count or countess, but they may have been siblings. The few referances to a comital title for these two are mainly on English-language pages, not the German ones, and is probably based on a misunderstanding, a mix-up with the Italian Counts Salviati. The Prussian family is listed in the Genealogisches Handbuch der adeligen Häuser. Adelige Häuser B, Band XV, not in Gräfliche Häuser.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:43:06 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #183 on: March 05, 2014, 05:51:28 PM »
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.

Neither of them were count or countess, but they may have been siblings. The few referances to a comital title for these two are mainly on English-language pages, not the German ones, and is probably based on a misunderstanding, a mix-up with the Italian Counts Salviati. The Prussian family is listed in the Genealogisches Handbuch der adeligen Häuser. Adelige Häuser B, Band XV, not in Gräfliche Häuser.

Actually most of the sites I found about Hans Viktor WERE in German and not English. However, it doesn't seem, upon further research today, that they were siblings. But the sites that *did* list them as siblings were German (or English using a German source) and not English ones.

One of the few English references I saw to Hans Viktor was John Wheeler-Bennett's memoirs were he recounted meeting Hans Viktor before WW2 and liking him very much.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #184 on: March 10, 2014, 12:25:41 AM »
Indeed. They were commoners.

Offline Превед

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #185 on: March 10, 2014, 08:01:58 AM »
Indeed. They were commoners.

There were no commoners in Germany. One was either high nobility (including royalty), lower nobility or bourgeoisie.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #186 on: March 12, 2014, 09:57:28 PM »
Not sure about that. The Salviatis are definitely not high nobility...I met a woman who knew her sister who works in a photo studio.

Offline Превед

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #187 on: March 12, 2014, 10:00:39 PM »
Not sure about that. The Salviatis are definitely not high nobility...I met a woman who knew her sister who works in a photo studio.

Of course they are lower nobility. And they would have been lower nobility even if they had a comital title, as long as it wasn't imperial.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2014, 10:04:01 PM »
Their standing in Germany is middle class without the trappings. The woman took the bus to work every day. No money nor high standing unlike the Thurn & Taxis.

Offline Превед

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #189 on: March 12, 2014, 10:11:01 PM »
Their standing in Germany is middle class without the trappings. The woman took the bus to work every day. No money nor high standing unlike the Thurn & Taxis.

It's an (outdated) legal concept, not a social one.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2014, 10:16:20 PM »
Royal Houses (especially dethroned ones) still swear by those rules. Just look at the Orleans Family in France.

Offline Превед

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2014, 11:08:39 PM »
Royal Houses (especially dethroned ones) still swear by those rules. Just look at the Orleans Family in France.

The current Dauphin married a bourgeoise roturière.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #192 on: March 13, 2014, 03:53:40 AM »
Taking the bus to work sounds a good thing to me.

Slightly off topic, but what became of Prince Wilhelm's wife and family after he was killed?

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #193 on: March 15, 2014, 11:15:41 PM »
Lived quietly as far as I know. She wasn't one to raise waves like Wallis Simpson or Magda Lapedsu

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #194 on: March 16, 2014, 06:06:04 AM »
Good for her.

Ann