Crown Princess Margarita of Romania & Prince Radu

[TampaBay]

I believe Princess Margareta, Michael's eldest daughter (he's ahd no sons) is his heir presumtive (if we can really speak of an heir to a country where the throne is nonexistent), but since she has no issue, the rights will fall on her next sister and from her to her son, Nicholas Medforth-Mills. Can anyone forward any info about him and how closely he is to Romania, or the whole family for that matter?

This has all been discussed indepth in the treads-"Romanian Royal Family"-last post 29 March 2005  and "Elena 'Magda' Lupescu" -last post 3 Macrh 2005 in this section.

The Romanian Throne/Crown cannot pass to a Woman or through a Woman under the old Romanian Constiutuion of 1936(?) which King Michael strictly adheres to.  

The curent Romanian Constitution makes no provision Royalty what so ever.  However, the Constitutuion does not specifically outlaw Royalty to my knowledge.

Marlene (along with Arturo) is the expert on this particular Royal Family.

TampaBay

[SSKENDER]

I do not think you said anything harsh, it is the truth. Just as I maintain that the Hohenzollerns did little to credit themselves to Romania. There just is not very much to remember their rule by other than bitter political power struggles and a couple of colourful Queens known for their eccentricities rather than any real contribution.

To maintain that is quite a bit of a stretch, Robert.
Do you forget King Carol's role in maintaining Romania as a state and building it up after independence?
Or do you forget Queen Marie's formidable role at the Paris Peace Conference that more or less defined Romania's present day borders.
The only dark spot is Carol II's reign, but King Michael more than prove and went beyond the call in redeeming his dynasty and his nation when he overthrew Antonescu.  So much in fact that his move is credited with turning the German tide against the Soviet flank at the close of the war, saving millions of lives in the process. He was decorated by both the United States and the Soviets for his role, and if it hadn't been the fact that Soviet troops were able to overtake the country due to the fact that the Romanian troops were in Hungary, Michael may still have been on his throne till this day. (Do you neglect Putin's recent place of honor to Michael?)
Regards,
Stavros

[ilyala]

Hi Yliala,
yes it's true, during the comunist dictature nobody studied or told about Romanian Royal House, but I'm sure that King Michael is in the people mind as a symbol of anticomunism; do you remember how many Romanian were in Bucarest to await King Michael's back any years after 1989? I guess Royal House re-won a respectability thanks to King Michael's rectitude and his respect for democracy; may be he is more son of Queen Helen than King Charles II!!  

i admire him a lot and i think he would have done a lot of good had he stayed king. but he didn't, and no, he is not a symbol for MOST romanians. yeah, there are romanians out there (the former communist opponents, the ones thrown in jail for political reasons, the heirs of the former rulers... and so on...) who respect king michael, but the vast majority of people in romania don't care about him. trust me on this one.

[QueenEna1887]

I think King Michael's heir should be his daughter Margarita. The throne should go to no other member of the family but descendants of the King.

[ISteinke]

Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see the importance of restoring these upstart eastern european monarchies.

In the Lord of the Rings Pippin Took asked Gandalf if the Steward of Gondor was the king? Gandalf replied that in some countries the steward might eventually become king, but not in Gondor, even if 100 generations might pass. The line of kings in Gondor was immeasurably sacred.

England and her monarchy could be compared to that of Gondor, as could that of Russia, and that of Austria. The Royal Family of Savoy and Sardinia (later kings of Italy) could also be said to have this longstanding, sacred position. However, the monarchies of Romania and Bulgaria have no standing except as minor branches of German royalty. If there is to be a monarchy in either of these countries it needs to be raised up from the people of these nations themselves.

My father is German, and I deeply love the royal family- revere the memory of  Kaiser Wilhelm. However, I don't think that there is any legitimate reason to restore the Hohenzollerns to a country in which they are entirely foreigners.

[rskkiya]

Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see the importance of restoring these upstart eastern european monarchies.

In the Lord of the Rings Pippin Took asked Gandalf if the Steward of Gondor was the king? Gandalf replied that in some countries the steward might eventually become king, but not in Gondor, even if 100 generations might pass. The line of kings in Gondor was immeasurably sacred.

England and her monarchy could be compared to that of Gondor, as could that of Russia, and that of Austria. The Royal Family of Savoy and Sardinia (later kings of Italy) could also be said to have this longstanding, sacred position. However, the monarchies of Romania and Bulgaria have no standing except as minor branches of German royalty. If there is to be a monarchy in either of these countries it needs to be raised up from the people of these nations themselves.

My father is German, and I deeply love the royal family- revere the memory of  Kaiser Wilhelm. However, I don't think that there is any legitimate reason to restore the Hohenzollerns to a country in which they are entirely foreigners.

 

   LOTR is a work of fantasy - brilliant and thoughtful as it is - nevertheless I don't quite see any comparison between a fictional epic, and the need to declare some monarchies to be "upstart' while others are not. This is not Middle Earth.
   No doubt those good souls in the nations involved will be able to manage it without your imput deeply concerned as you are.

[TampaBay]

Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see the importance of restoring these upstart eastern european monarchies.

In the Lord of the Rings Pippin Took asked Gandalf if the Steward of Gondor was the king? Gandalf replied that in some countries the steward might eventually become king, but not in Gondor, even if 100 generations might pass. The line of kings in Gondor was immeasurably sacred.

I am not Romanian so I cannot say if they do or do not need a King.  The Majority of peolpe on this cyberspace forum support cognative Royal succession.

England and her monarchy could be compared to that of Gondor, as could that of Russia, and that of Austria. The Royal Family of Savoy and Sardinia (later kings of Italy) could also be said to have this longstanding, sacred position. However, the monarchies of Romania and Bulgaria have no standing except as minor branches of German royalty. If there is to be a monarchy in either of these countries it needs to be raised up from the people of these nations themselves.

My father is German, and I deeply love the royal family- revere the memory of  Kaiser Wilhelm. However, I don't think that there is any legitimate reason to restore the Hohenzollerns to a country in which they are entirely foreigners.




 

I am not Romanian so I cannot say if they do or do not need a King.  The majority of people/posters on this cyberspace forum support cognative Royal succession.


The discussions of King Michael of Romania's heir is simple. Margarita is King's Michael's  HEIR and will be the next head of the Romanian Royal family.  However, she (Margarita) cannot ascend and assume the throne because the "OLD" Romainian constitutuion dies not alllow for women to sit on the throne.  It is called "Salic Law".

TampaBay

[ISteinke]

rsskiya wrote:

LOTR is a work of fantasy - brilliant and thoughtful as it is - nevertheless I don't quite see any comparison between a fictional epic, and the need to declare some monarchies to be "upstart' while others are not. This is not Middle Earth.  

LOTR is work of fiction that was written by Tolkien as a major statement of the very traditional European values that he cherished. He was one of the greatest scholars of European and Medieval history who ever lived.

If we are to exclude the work of Tolkien from these discussions, then we might just as easily exclude the Aeneid from discussion of Roman values. Tolkien's works are profoundly relevant when speaking of European values and poltics.

Do a little bit of source criticism of Tolkien and you will understand what I mean.


(By the way, Tolkien hated no-one in the world as much as he hated Adolph Hitler, but for very interesting and different reasons. Tolkien is reliably quoted as havng said that Hitler, by his racism, was making forever accursed the very Nordic and European values that Tolkien [in LOTR] was trying to enshrine)

[ilyala]

Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see the importance of restoring these upstart eastern european monarchies.

In the Lord of the Rings Pippin Took asked Gandalf if the Steward of Gondor was the king? Gandalf replied that in some countries the steward might eventually become king, but not in Gondor, even if 100 generations might pass. The line of kings in Gondor was immeasurably sacred.

England and her monarchy could be compared to that of Gondor, as could that of Russia, and that of Austria. The Royal Family of Savoy and Sardinia (later kings of Italy) could also be said to have this longstanding, sacred position. However, the monarchies of Romania and Bulgaria have no standing except as minor branches of German royalty. If there is to be a monarchy in either of these countries it needs to be raised up from the people of these nations themselves.

My father is German, and I deeply love the royal family- revere the memory of  Kaiser Wilhelm. However, I don't think that there is any legitimate reason to restore the Hohenzollerns to a country in which they are entirely foreigners.

that was the point
romania installed a foreign dinasty because it was filled with princes from different families who fought for power. choosing one of those princes to be king would have meant raising one particular family to the power. bringing a foreign person who has no interest and no cousins to promote is the best way to have an objective head of the country

[rskkiya]

rsskiya wrote:

LOTR is a work of fantasy - brilliant and thoughtful as it is - nevertheless I don't quite see any comparison between a fictional epic, and the need to declare some monarchies to be "upstart' while others are not. This is not Middle Earth.  

LOTR is work of fiction that was written by Tolkien as a major statement of the very traditional European values that he cherished. He was one of the greatest scholars of European and Medieval history who ever lived.

If we are to exclude the work of Tolkien from these discussions, then we might just as easily exclude the Aeneid from discussion of Roman values. Tolkien's works are profoundly relevant when speaking of European values and poltics.

Do a little bit of source criticism of Tolkien and you will understand what I mean.


(By the way, Tolkien hated no-one in the world as much as he hated Adolph Hitler, but for very interesting and different reasons. Tolkien is reliably quoted as havng said that Hitler, by his racism, was making forever accursed the very Nordic and European values that Tolkien [in LOTR] was trying to enshrine)

TRUST ME - I KNOW TOLKIEN !
  If we want to discuss possible connections to history and politics in his thoughtful works- we might find a literary site to continue this. As far as I understand his intention in his work, he wanted to attempt an Epic tale using images that he collected from such fragments as as the Kalavala and various Finno-Ugric myths as well as those Anglo saxon images that you love to mention!
  I must disagree with you on this point his work- wonderful as it is- is not relevent to a discussion of reestablishing certain monarchies in Eastern Europe in the 21st century! Tolkien was a brilliant scholar - especially regarding  his understanding of Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight but he was an expert on literature, languages and poetry not history.
 
I must suggest that he was not an expert on Balkan history or politics and this is really rather off topic!

rskkiya

[cimbrio]

If the throne cannot revert to a woman of to a male THROUGH the female line I should think they'd go back to the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen family tree and trace the most eligible male, I guess   After all, that's what happened when Carol I died without surviving issue, they went to his nephews back in Germany.  The eldest, Wilhelm (1864-1927) refused the throne and therefore passed the right to his second brother Ferdinand, who became Ferdinand I in 1914. If I'm not mistaken, and if they did look for a suitable candidate in the male line, it'd be either Frederick William of hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1924), grandson of the Wilhelm I mentioned above, or (if Wilhelma ctually gave up any eventual succession rights for him and his descendants to the Romanian throne), then the candidate would be Carlos patrick of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, son of the late Godehard Frederick of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (1939-2001), grandson of Karl Anton of Hohenzollern, youngest brother of Ferdinand I. Carlos, as well as his father, are the issue of non equal amrriages, whilst the above mentioned Frederick William is both son of royalty and was (he is a widower) married to a princess. His eldest son is also married to the higher nobility So, what will it be?

[ilyala]

i doubt they wanna be involved

[TampaBay]

It is simple.  If Romania wants a Monarchy add a line/foot note to the current constiution allowing for a figure head monarchy with cognative succession or add a footnote to the current constitution changing/outlining the succession to cognative format but not putting the Monarchy back on the throne so Margarita may become the "official in exile" Crown Princess.

TampaBay

[Robert_Hall]

One does not change a constitution with a simple "footnote". Dictators do that.

[TampaBay]

One does not change a constitution with a simple "footnote". Dictators do that.

Robert,

You are correct and I was being " ".  Please forgive .

TampaBay