Author Topic: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF  (Read 90916 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2005, 09:00:48 AM »
Yes, but you can click "Romanovfund" and it comes up for me then.
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bluetoria

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2005, 09:07:10 AM »
Ah! Thanks! Got it!

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2005, 10:18:21 AM »
On the Romanovfund site there is a complete list of those who attended.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline La_Mashka

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2005, 11:27:43 AM »
You have to click a link that takes you to information on the family, and there you will find lots of stuff!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by La_Mashka »
Tishie mushi kot na krushie

bluetoria

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2005, 05:36:23 PM »
Thank you, elisa, for your list!  :)

Offline zoya_konstantinovna

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2005, 07:23:18 PM »
i always wonder wat russia would b like if they hadnt been exacuted ne ideas? ???
Zoya

Beth

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2005, 07:58:30 AM »
If you want to know, start a new thread. Most Russians really don't care.

bluetoria

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2005, 11:26:01 AM »
Quote
i always wonder wat russia would b like if they hadnt been exacuted ne ideas? ???


I imagine that even if they hadn't been executed they would still have been removed from power and so Russia would have ended up exactly as it did.
Had they managedto hold onto the throne, eventually there may have been a constitutional monarchy but it always seems to me that the whole Russian Empire was FAR too large for anyone to govern. Perhaps it would have been divided into separate states on American lines??

ferngully

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2005, 12:50:50 PM »
either way, it would have detiriorated

Offline RichC

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2005, 03:47:20 PM »
Why were the IF made saints?

Why is it a good thing?

Why is it a bad thing?

What does their sainthood mean?

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2005, 04:03:48 PM »
They were made Saints because the Orthodox Church recognised that they had been glorified by God in His Kingdom. Ususally the first sign that someone is going to be recognised as a Saint is popular veneration on the grassroots level. Accounts of miracles attributed to the Royal martyrs' intercessions to God can be found in various places like on Fr Serfes site for example.  It is important to realise that one doesn't become a Saint at the moment the Church glorifies - they have been Saints since they entered God's Kingdom. The recognition comes later on.

It is neither a good or a bad thing, - it just is. Of course there was some contoversy over the glorification, because people look at how the Emperor was as a ruler, but he was not glorified for being a good tsar, but as a passion bearing martyr, and as an Orthodox Christian, there is much I find worth emulating in their written thoughts, attitudes and piety as they approached the end of their Earthly existence.

Their Sainthood means that we are able to ask for their prayers to God, and to look to them as examples of how we should conduct ourselves (and once again I would reiterate that it is the last perios of their lives that shows quite clearly their Orthodoxy and piety.)

I imagine however, it would be quite difficult for people outside the Orthodox Church to understand why they are Saints and such popular ones at that. Catholics might have some idea, but Catholic and Orthodox attitudes towards Saints and even the way they are glorified are somewhat different.

Offline RichC

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2005, 04:23:41 PM »
Thank you, Georgiy.  I think we are off to a good start!

Offline 30_Dollar_Princess

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2005, 04:38:54 PM »
I understand what you say Georgiy. The IF did indeed handle themselves with dignity and faith as the end drew nearer.  I am not in the least religious and I can easily see how this might be seen as a fine example for people.

As a Catholic and a child of the era of PR and "spin" I can easily understand that the appeal of four pretty girls, a doomed young prince who is the embodiment of sacrifice because of his physical infirmity and two loving parents who were brutally cut down.  
As all of us who frequent this site can attest they present   a powerful and enduring image of the destructiveness of relentless brutality and ambition.

What I wonder though is this, is there not also an element of political/social expediency in the family being made saints, and if so what is to be gained?

I'm also curious as to why so many people seem to take such exception to the fact of their canonization. As Georgiy said "it just is" and is in fact no more offensive than many of the people to whom the Catholic church has given  sainthood.  

Unless one is deeply crypto-religious how can this create more of a "disturbance in the force" than say...a novena to St. Jude in the classified section?

It brings comfort to those who may find these saints more approachable than say...St. Francis de Sales...or any of the many people who were canonized for nothing less than being a (more or less successful) WARRIOR.

bluetoria

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2005, 05:11:39 PM »
I agree with you completely 30 dollar princess, except for your reference to Francis de Sales whom I must defend since he is one of my favourite saints!  :D He was a gentle & generous  Bishop not a warrior at all - he wrote a beautiful book which is full of worldly wisdom...Did you perhaps mean Francis Xavier? (Cri du coeur...'Leave my poor Francis de Sales alone!'  ;D)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Martyrdom, Sainthood. Reburial and Commemoration of IF
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2005, 05:22:32 PM »
Other warrior Saints would include SS George and Demetrios. (But of course they did much more than just being warroirs, and St George was a top-gun in Diocletian's army and was brutally tortured for his Christian Faith before being beheaded.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Georgiy »