Author Topic: King Carol I of Romania and his family  (Read 146098 times)

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Prince_Christopher

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2005, 09:12:09 PM »
This is a touching photo.  It is the only one of Elisabeth I've ever seen of her looking genuinely happy.  Almost like a different person, but it is her....

Here is an excellent link devoted to Elisabeth (Carmen Sylva), and writings by and about her.  There is also a wonderful gallery with many pictures....

http://www.tkinter.smig.net/CarmenSylva/

« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 03:30:55 AM by Prince_Christopher »

Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2005, 02:26:19 PM »
more Elisabeth









Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2005, 11:41:47 AM »
a caricature


Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2005, 11:43:17 AM »

Offline Svetabel

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #94 on: November 28, 2005, 12:48:01 AM »
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Is it an icon?????

Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2005, 02:54:04 AM »
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Is it an icon?????



this is painted on a wall at Curtea de arges monastery,close to her tomb,and there is another similar one with CarolI,painted in the same place but on another wall-i'll try to find that too
Laura
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Laurra »

Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #96 on: November 28, 2005, 03:33:40 AM »
bigger version(Curtea de Arges)







Laura

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2005, 03:36:06 AM »
Carmen Sylva's talent


Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #98 on: November 28, 2005, 03:37:03 AM »

Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #99 on: November 28, 2005, 03:38:11 AM »
her tomb at Curtea de Arges


palimpsest

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2005, 12:12:19 PM »
Quote

Is it an icon?????


Very good question. On the West wall of Orthodox Churches, close to the exit of the church, there usually is a similar-to-the-rest-of-the-mural-icons image that presents the patron-donors-builders who have helped in the building and the decoration of the church. The main donor usually presents a small model of the new church as a gift to Christ or the Theotokos. So even if the depicted donors are not canonized saints the whole scene is an icon because of the "happening" of giving something to God, a sacred and blessed act. You must also keep in mind that in the Orthodox Church the "sacred" tends to permeate the "profane" much more than in Western Christianity.

However, these images are icons mainly in the context of that particular church. It would be highly unusual to make a separate-portable icon out of it. They are usually called "votive mural-paintings".

The particular votive murals you can see here with the Romanian Royal Family are problematic because they don't respect the regular canons of icon-painting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »

Offline Laura_

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2005, 06:08:01 PM »

ilyala

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2005, 08:25:52 AM »
it's not an icon. the orthodox churches have the habbit of painting their main contributors on the walls. as a tribute. as in, if the king x built a church, the church will aknowledge him as its founder by painting him on the wall. icons are of saints.

palimpsest

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2005, 11:04:40 AM »
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it's not an icon. the orthodox churches have the habbit of painting their main contributors on the walls. as a tribute. as in, if the king x built a church, the church will aknowledge him as its founder by painting him on the wall. icons are of saints.


ilyala
Icons are of Christ, and only as long as somebody [a saint] or an event becomes a recognizable "image" of Christ it becomes an icon.

Icons aren't only of saints but of holy "acts/events" as well, for example a Holy Synod/Council of the Church. Not all the participants are saints. Even the central figure can be an Emperor that is not a saint. The ACT of giving/dedicating a church/synod to God is an ICON of holiness; this is why it is acceptable within the iconography. When a saint dedicates his whole life to Christ, even his torture and martyrdom becomes an icon of the Crucifixion, and you can see many acts of torture on church walls [in the pro-naos or exonarthex].

In the Orthodox Church we believe that God has “come down” to us to GIVE us the chance of deification as long as we become icons of that GIVING. The church itself is a complex icon.

The main theme in an Orthodox Church is God coming down, working and GIVING Himself among us. Building/GIVING a place fit for the Liturgy within a community, fully decorated with the complete iconography, entitles the donor eternal remembrance in the Liturgy and a place in the iconography [even if at the "end" of it], even if that person is not a saint. This is why donors and kings have special places to sit during the Liturgy and why they can be buried within the church.

You must also remember that every church has as historical/symbolical model the Synagogue. The Synagogue has as historical/symbolical model the Temple of Solomon. And, not surprisingly, the temple of Solomon is similar to Egyptian temples. If you remember, almost all temples in Egypt are built by kings/pharaohs. Initially they were the only intercessors between Egypt and the gods. The priests were only substitutes for the king. You must also remember that in the Orthodox Church to this day an anointed king has the right to enter the altar of the church during the Liturgy passing the Imperial doors. The king giving to the gods is a prominent fixture of the "iconography" of a temple. Even if this theme has diminished in importance in a church it is still there, and rightfully so.

You may say “we pray before an icon, and I cannot pray before somebody who is not a saint!” If you say that you forget that the donor gives his gift/prayer to Christ, and that Christ is the main element there, and because of that it becomes an icon [not as important as all the rest in the church, but nevertheless an icon]. When we pray we become icons of Christ praying to God in the garden of Gethsemane. When a king GIVES a church to God for a community he becomes an icon of Christ GIVING Himself on the Cross to God for the world.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »

palimpsest

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Re: King Carol I of Romania and his family
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2005, 02:49:43 PM »



isn't this an icon?
[the donor here is not a saint but a king of Sicily]

artistically it is far away from the XIXth century votive paintings of the Romanian Royal Family, but it is still the same theme

even if I don't consider XIXth century church painting [of Nicolae Grigorescu for example] proper for church walls and iconography, those churches were dedicated and consecrated by bishops and so the murals are icons [even if they remain problematic]

if a Christian prays before a poor image of the Theotokos [on paper, in western style] blessed by a priest then that image is an icon for him [even if he should know better and plan his life so as to be able to afford a "proper" icon in the future]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »