Dr.Ginther- Questions To Ask Him

[Inquiring_Mind]

Do we know why King did not give all the samples to Ginther? Did she ever turn them over? That seems curious. Did King actually do any of the testing?
Go Bears!

Yes,would it have been no less then a minor miracle if Dr Ginther had been given BOTH the tissue and the slide?

Maybe there wasn't enough medium to do this.

What amazes me to this day....and I have had people explain it to me...but it still amazes me...

Is that the hospital kept AA's biopsy tissue AND syringes AND broken metal dish parts?

I am of the belief that my appendix and pieces of my bowel..YUCK...were disposed of when the time limit that I could sue the doctor and/ or hospital was exceeded.

I have been told that these samples are kept by reputable hospitals indefinately. Who has the space or the resources to do this?

I know my appendix ended up in a dumpster. And probably before anyone was concerned with the spread of disease from medical waste.

I remember a summer on the Jersey shore in the mid 80's when we couldn't get in the water because the weather pattern pulled all the medical waste into the beach.

No, I am not screaming conspiracy.....yes, the hospital had the sample of AA. Still hard for me to comprehend. But there were other medium like syringes? Very very hard for me to comprehend.

Have a great night everyone. Back to work tomorrow.

[jeremygaleaz]

Why not be specific and tell us with your vast investigative experience in historical research what cases you are referring to?

Every single bloomin case that DNA science has solved. There is never a time when subjective evidence can not be interpreted to arrive at a different conclusion than the one shown by DNA. Otherwise, defence lawyers wouldn't have a job.

Unless your vast investigative experience in historical/criminal research can find something different?  

 

 
Kurth met the woman, knew the woman, and wrote this book in the 1980's BEFORE the DNA experiments were done.  My copy is a first run print I believe in 1982. He was looking at the evidence available at the time.

Right.... all things that have already been said...and he arrived at the wrong conclusion.


 

Kurth used trial transcripts, notes, affadavits, and did as accurate a job as possible with the evidence available.
He did not indulge in speculative journalism as did the writers of  File On The Tsar.   Kurth put forward a VERY CONVINCING case, based on the testimony of actual persons involved, and did interview those surviving at the time.

Well, given that you wrote "very convincing" in capitals, in does seem to me like you are trying to tie in that she may have been Anastasia...hhhhmmm? . Sometime , you and I will have to talk about Santa Claus too.

[Finelly]

Be nice to each other, or I will start to write about my theory, which is....

FS was not AA

AA was not AN

BUT.....FS was AN.

And you really don't want me to do that, because.....well.....it's complicated by the fact that I have absolutely not one jot of evidence.

[jeremygaleaz]

but why not try to be a bit honest for once.

Trying to bait me with another arugment while preaching peace? Ah-ah, Naughty boy! Teddy2 sends many kisses to his favorite " Simpsons " comic book guy"  

[Finelly]

I'm warning you..........

[jeremygaleaz]

Be nice to each other, or I will start to write about my theory, which is....

FS was not AA

AA was not AN

BUT.....FS was AN.

And you really don't want me to do that, because.....well.....it's complicated by the fact that I have absolutely not one jot of evidence.

Ahhh,,,,no please! point taken!

Don't worry, I take just about all of it with a grain of salt and just laugh!   

[Finelly]

Well, ok then.

But the threat still stands........

[jeremygaleaz]

Well, ok then.

But the threat still stands........

Just no more crazy theories!!

[Inquiring_Mind]

Yes the thread still stands...

Have you not learned your lesson on other threads ? The ones that made you think twice about posting? The ones that didn't want you back?

Hijacking a thread...

Explanation...someone who takes the thread off topic to cause posters to fight amongst themselves.

I don't give a care if I can never post here again for what I  say here today.  I will live without this forum. I will lose alot of valuable info in the process but ...oh well!

But it is totally exhausting to try to have any kind of thought provoking conversation here.

You are not funny, nor witty. Not productive.

You chase away people who have valuable info whether it be research or personal experience.

Again, why do we even bother coming here if it is not to share info and enchange ideas?





For me, I come here because there are posters here that I can learn from. People I respect. I can't see there faces, I have not met them, but every word they type is worth my reading.

[jeremygaleaz]

Yes the thread still stands...

Have you not learned your lesson on other threads ? The ones that made you think twice about posting? The ones that didn't want you back?

Hijacking a thread...

Explanation...someone who takes the thread off topic to cause posters to fight amongst themselves.

I don't give a care if I can never post here again for what I  say here today.  I will live without this forum. I will lose alot of valuable info in the process but ...oh well!

But it is totally exhausting to try to have any kind of thought provoking conversation here.

You are not funny, nor witty. Not productive.

You chase away people who have valuable info whether it be research or personal experience.

Again, why do we even bother coming here if it is not to share info and enchange ideas?


For me, I come here because there are posters here that I can learn from. People I respect. I can't see there faces, I have not met them, but every word they type is worth my reading.

I think there's someone else Teddy2 needs to kiss!

Here's the deal lady...no one's arguing, everything is taken with a grain of salt (at least, by me) ... and it takes two to argue, so if you don't like something, simply don't respond. It's simple, and works very well!

And, if you think Chimera theories  (among other more wild ones) are worth reading about no one is stopping you from doing just that, are they?

[lexi4]

So, back to Dr. Ginther.......

[jeremygaleaz]

So, back to Dr. Ginther.......

Good point, but there is one more issue that Bear brings up again and again, as she did here on the Dr. Ginther thread,  and many people  wonder about....  the "half sister" issue....and even though bringing it up in the first place is a bit of topic,  it deserves a response...

The Kleir and Mingay book, "The Quest for Anastasia" is usually quoted as the source for this topic by Penny mostly, but also by Bear and other posters.  During a recent interview, Proff Kleir was asked, specifically, about the sibling relationship between Gertrude and FS.

He was quite shocked as he had never heard of the "theory" about them being half sisters  before based on the writings in his book, and neither did his wife. The only argument they presented in their book was that FS'S father had two marriages. Not that Gertrude was a half sister, nor did they have any other evidence to place the children in the first marriage. They never raised the "half sister" issue,   and certainly had no items of interest that caused them to speculate that Gertrude was anything less than a full sibling.  Both Kleir and Mingay (his wife) laughed at the idea that Gertude and FS had different mothers,  feel it is "nutters" and believe that AA was FS "110%" .

So, not intending to go far off topic, but just throwing this out there for those interested as this "possibility" is often brought up, and the source for this is often quoted as being "Quest",  and people back it up with the "abscence" of Gertrude's birth/ baptismal records (hardly unique, given those "minor" skirmishes called WWI and WWII and the destruction they brought)

And, it's worth noting that the Schankowsky family fully accepts AA as FS. Perhaps when I get back from Europe I'll post English translations of Waltraud's interviews, as well as some of these pictures I promised awhile ago.

In the meantime, if anyone would like to start another thread on this issue, feel free.

   

[jeremygaleaz]

When I discovered there wasn't a birth certificate for Gertrude Ellrick,   I stepped back and viewed what everyone had been saying from a different angle.

At this time, without a birth or baptismal certificate, we do not know if Gertrude and FS had the same mother.  If we do not know this important fact then we can not prove FS and Gertrude had the same mtDNA.

Yes, we can assume that Gertrude and FS had the same mother since they were both raised in Anton Schanzkowska's home as sisters.

However, during my 30 years of  doing family history, it has not been unsual to find a thought-to-be-a-sibling not a sibling.   Nor was it unsual for the person, who had been raised in a family,  not know they were not a sister or a brother to the other children being raised in the same household.

How was this possible?  One has to understand that death was common place when there wasn't any miracle drugs.  Entire familes died from the flu or typoid.....  If a child managed to survive it was usually taken in by an old sister or brother  OR and aunt or uncle.....  Sometimes a friend's family .... Sometimes by someone who had just lost their own baby and had plenty of breast milk to care for a baby....

No, it's no unsual for one child out of ten to not be recorded, however, if the family is religious, then there is usually found a certificate of baptism.  

Penny and others have sent in researchers to find Gertrud's information.  They have found the other children's records of Anton Schanzkowska but not Gertrud's.

Unfortunately, all we have of mtDNA are from Gertrud's desc. .

....and others who take mtDNA and close their eyes to other evidence and make assumptions about Gertrud's mother....

This is Bear's post, in part, that I was referring to..

[Penny_Wilson]

The Kleir and Mingay book, "The Quest for Anastasia" is usually quoted as the source for this topic, by Penny mostly, but also by Bear, as well as other posters. During a recent interview, Proff Kleir was asked, specifically, about the sibling relationship between Gertrude and FS.

He was quite shocked as he had never heard of the "theory" about them being half sisters  before based on the writings in his book, and neither did his wife. The only argument they presented in their book was that FS'S father had two marriages. Not that Gertrude was a half sister, nor did they have any other evidence to place the children in the first marriage. They never raised the "half sister" issue,   and certainly had no items of interest that caused them to speculate that Gertrude was anything less than a full sibling.

"Anna had been confronted by members of the Schanzkowski family twice -- first by Franziska's brother Felix in 1927 and secondly by four of her siblings in 1938.  On both occasions, they did not identify her as their sister.  Franziska Schanzkowska was born on 16 December 1896, in Bororwihlas, a small town in Kashubia, one of the Polish provinces at that time forming part of the German Empire.  ... Her father married twice, and she was a child of the second marriage and close to her brother Felix.  The first family were very religious and straitlaced, while Franziska and Felix were more open-minded..."  (The Quest for Anastasia, by John Klier and Helen Mingay.  London: Smith Gryphon, 1995.  Page 223)

Both Kleir and Mingay (his wife) laughed at the idea that Gertude and FS had different mothers,  feel it is "nutters" and believe that AA was FS "110%" .

I doubt very much if John and Helen were as ill-advised to make comments like this for publication in a public arena -- did you get their permission to quote them thusly?

[jeremygaleaz]

So, you spoke with them directly on this "half sister" issue  Penny? Not arguing, simply asking.