Daisy Princess of Pless

[Marc]

One article regarding Daisy,her cousin Ena and Grand Duke:

http://www.fitz-patrick.ca/ttou/Chapternine/34.htm

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[grandduchessella]

I have the same book and have been curious about this for some time. Burke's Royal Families [vol.1] says only the he died by suicide via a gun.  He was Mecklenburg-Strelitz and the only;y other book I have on them is in German, which I do not read.

Could it have been the rumors that he was going to be forced to set aside a well-loved woman (perhaps even a secret wife) in order to make a 'proper marriage' and secure the succession? The papers were full of it at the time though that can always be taken with a grain of salt. He did have the one lady that he shared 2 children with though, didn't he? The story went that he and his brother had worked a deal where Adolf could lead his own life while Karl Borwin did the proper marriage and heir thing. Then Karl Borwin was killed. WW1 happened and the next in line to the throne was on the side of the Russians. All this increased pressure on Adolf to 'do his duty' and he just couldn't take it.

[CountessKate]

In "Daisy, Princess of Pless by herself", Daisy wrote rather undramatically that she believed Adolphus Frederick had been severely depressed because of being torn between his pro-British sympathies and his love of Germany, and the death of his Grandmother Augusta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (born a princess of Great Britain and a confidante of her niece, Queen Mary) - and because of debilitating hay fever!  The latter seems a bit of a stretch (although of course at the time there were few means of alleviating the symptoms and they can be very severe), but the others seem not unreasonable.  Daisy herself was very much the target of anti-British accusations in the press and Adolphus Frederick would have been perceived as tarnished by association, not a great leap to accusations of being Daisy's lover and acting under her direction to spy for Britain.  From Daisy's various memoirs the anti-British hysteria in the press and German society generally sound very much like those in Britain at the time and could be very wearing after a while, especially if Adolphus-Frederick had lost one of the few confidantes sympathetic to his internal conflicts in his grandmother.  Of course being depressed because of a bereavement and press hostility, and feeling ill, is not such a good story as a jealous Kaiser (although I think it was actually his son, Crown Prince Wilhelm, who had rather a crush on Daisy), blackmail, forced divorces, etc.

[Tony de Gandarillas]

Robert Hall,  It’s amazing to think that Ghislain de Diesbach is writing and well in Paris.  He also has written wonderful books on Madame de Staël, Princess Bibesco, and L’abbé Mugnier.  I know a grand-nephew of his who lives in Switzerland.  The de Diesbach de Belleroche family is one most famous Catholic aristocratic families of Switzerland.

[Tony de Gandarillas]

CountessKate, I have read nearly all of Daisy, Princess of Pless’ books: Princess Daisy of Pless by Herself, Better Left Unsaid, What I left Unsaid.  I have not read the Private Diaries of Princess Daisy of Pless, but in order to get a more unbiased understanding of her, I started to read some of the diaries or memoires of her contemporaries, those of Captain Frederick Ponsonby, 1st Baron Sysonby, he was equerry and Acting Private Secretary to King Edward VII, donna Vittoria Caetani, duchess of Sermoneta, Lady in Waiting to the Queen of Italy, and the many books by Lady Walpurga von Hohenthal Paget.  I’m sure that the Princess of Pless was no more vain than other professional Beauties of her day, such as Lady de Grey, Lady Brooke, Duchess of Leinster, Lady Mary Mill, and lastly the Ladies Londonderry, Dalhousie, and Ormonde.  The Princess of Pless had admirers and flatterers including herself.  That is why I take all her writings with a grain of salt.

[Tony de Gandarillas]

To understand Daisy, Princess of Pless, one must understand her mother, Lady Olivia Fitzpatrick, who was the daughter of the 2nd Marquess of Headfort.  I quote from Leslie Field’s Bendor- the Golden Duke of Westminster ISBN 0 297 78046 8;

“When her elder daughter was seventeen, Patsy was still only thirty-four.  Accustomed to flirtation and flattery, the last thing she wanted was grown-up daughters following at her heels and it was made clear to Daisy and Shelagh that they must find a husband during their first season.  So Daisy ‘came out’ and, wearing her first long dress ith a train, was presented at Court.  Less than three months later she was engaged to one of the richest men in Europe, Prince Hans Heinrich of Pless.  He had been sent to London as Third Secretary at the German Embassy in the hope that he might meet and marry Princess May of Teck”

One should remember that the impoverished Cornwallis-Wests were forced by their mother to marry the richest men they could.  Mary (Daisy) married one of the richest aristocrats in Europe and her sister Constance (Shelagh) married the richest Duke in England.  Their mother constantly charged bills to her sons in law and lived at their expense in their homes much to their chagrin.

[Marc]

Interesting...didn't know about that kind of relationship...Did daughters knew the real reason why mother wanted them off?To marry as soon as possible because of mothers jelousy and greed for money...what kind of relations did they have after their marriage?You pointed out that Olivia often "lived at their expense in their home",so this would often make her "following the heels of her daughters" which in fact,as I understood,she didn't want exatly!

[CountessKate]

CountessKate, I have read nearly all of Daisy, Princess of Pless’ books: Princess Daisy of Pless by Herself, Better Left Unsaid, What I left Unsaid.  I have not read the Private Diaries of Princess Daisy of Pless, but in order to get a more unbiased understanding of her, I started to read some of the diaries or memoires of her contemporaries, those of Captain Frederick Ponsonby, 1st Baron Sysonby, he was equerry and Acting Private Secretary to King Edward VII, donna Vittoria Caetani, duchess of Sermoneta, Lady in Waiting to the Queen of Italy, and the many books by Lady Walpurga von Hohenthal Paget.  I’m sure that the Princess of Pless was no more vain than other professional Beauties of her day, such as Lady de Grey, Lady Brooke, Duchess of Leinster, Lady Mary Mill, and lastly the Ladies Londonderry, Dalhousie, and Ormonde.  The Princess of Pless had admirers and flatterers including herself.  That is why I take all her writings with a grain of salt.

I absolutely agree, Tony, which is why I was struck by Daisy's prosaic suggestion of why Adolphus Frederick committed suicide - she is usually rather more sentimental and dramatic, and not one to give no prominence to a man who seemed to admire her.  There was no especial reason why she would have toned down any romantic relationship with him - she was coy about her relationship with Prince Gottfried of Hohenlohe-Waldenburg-Schillingfurst, but made it clear in her various books that many men had flirted with her and that there had been a great love of her life, and Adolphus Frederick wasn't in either camp.  I would have expected her to play up the mystery and sinister qualities of the situation, and her audience would have appreciated this - which is why I suspect that for once she wrote an uncharacteristically plain account of her thoughts on the matter.  She made it clear that he had been a friend but she had no special information about what caused him to kill himself, and the whole passage looks for once like she wanted simply to set the record straight by explaining the pressures which were likely to have been on him. 

[Robert_Hall]

I am fascinated by all of this. I have ignored  the Pless books because I thought much the  same, a write off waste of time. Now, maybe worth looking in to.

[CountessKate]

Interesting...didn't know about that kind of relationship...Did daughters knew the real reason why mother wanted them off?To marry as soon as possible because of mothers jelousy and greed for money...what kind of relations did they have after their marriage?You pointed out that Olivia often "lived at their expense in their home",so this would often make her "following the heels of her daughters" which in fact,as I understood,she didn't want exatly!

I don't think one can simply attribute Patsy Cornwallis-West's desire to marry off her daughters to very rich men as simply greed for money, or even jealousy, since every other aristocratic mother with any desire for their daughters' welfare would have done exactly the same.  Young women had no education which fitted them for any working position whatsoever, and the only career open to them was that of a wife and mother or parental carer.  The latter was generally considered to demonstrate failure on the part of the mother to find them a husband or on them to attract one.  If marriage was considered in the light of a career, it was incumbent on aristocratic women to choose men of exceptional position, to whom they could provide support and the continuation of the dynasty which was considered so important.  Actual detestation of the chap and forced marriages were not considered proper by the time the Cornwallis-West girls married, but if the men in question were reasonably good-looking (or at least not ugly), aristocratic and very rich, no mother in her senses in the circles in which Patsy Cornwallis-West moved would have shown any hesitation in putting heavy pressure on their girls to take advantage of the opportunity in settling themselves so well.  And there seems no indication in any of Daisy's memoirs that she particularly resented her mother's marital opportunism, or that she quarrelled with her in any way.  

[CountessKate]

Just to add to the above, Daisy summed up the prevailing views very well in "From my private diary" in the January 27, 1897 entry: "Young Lord Waterford....talked all the time to Shelagh [sister]; everyone remarked it.  The Ilchesters are quite anxious for her to marry their son and spoke to Patsy and Poppets [father] about it; he is a charming boy and one of the best matches in England; he is too shy to propose and Shelagh says he is too young and will not encourage him one bit; he is only twenty-two [Shelagh was 21], but I think she is throwing away a good chance, as a woman is almost bound to fall in love with the man who gives her everything, houses, jewels, horses, every penny she had; and later on, her children; in fact the one to whom she owes everything - just as Hans gives me everything and is so good and dear; a woman must come to love such as husband and I know Stavordale would make a real nice husband for the little girl.  Gordy Wood is still in love with her and is going out to Africa to make money in the hope that she will wait; ridiculous."

[Kalafrana]

Just to add that Adolphus Frederick's heir was a member of the branch of the Mecklenburg-Strelitz family that had been in Russian service for several generations asnd was a General in the Russian Army.

Ann

[ashdean]

To understand Daisy, Princess of Pless, one must understand her mother, Lady Olivia Fitzpatrick, who was the daughter of the 2nd Marquess of Headfort.  I quote from Leslie Field’s Bendor- the Golden Duke of Westminster ISBN 0 297 78046 8;

Lady Olivia was not Daisys mother she was her maternal grandmother. Patsy was a daughter of Lady Olivia.

[ashdean]

Just to add that Adolphus Frederick's heir was a member of the branch of the Mecklenburg-Strelitz family that had been in Russian service for several generations asnd was a General in the Russian Army.

Ann

But the Duke who also was a childless bachelor was not interested in the throne (although he and his widowed sister returned there to live in exile after their flight from Russia onboard a british warship).That was why in his will Adolphous Fredrick left his huge fortune and the throne to  Christian Ludwig the younger son of the Grand Duke of Mecklenberg-Schwerin.

[Robert_Hall]

This just gets more and more interesting. I really should buy the books.