Author Topic: Questions about Jewels in Clothes  (Read 33187 times)

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Offline Kyriaki

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2004, 04:14:27 PM »
Mentioned by Mr. Atchison above that Alix turned over Victoria's jewel box - what ever became of it?

If the box exists in Russia now, have the British ever laid claim to it or to its contents?

I read about this box in other threads but could not discover its current whereabouts.

thank you

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2004, 04:26:44 PM »
Alexandra turned over her sister's jewel box to the Provisional government - I don't know what happened to it.  There should be some record.  I can't imagine her brother or sister did not try to recover it.

The valuables left in the palace were inventoried and sent off - they classed them in different ways based on precious metals and jewels.

I have an inventory of some of Nicholas's things -

I have never seen an inventory of Alexandra's valuables.  It was done by room when the contents were inventoried.  We know that groups of things were sold by the Soviets at the same time and often bought as lots.  That's why Virginia has so many things from the Mauve Room - there we shown and bought as a group or 'fund'.

I am certianly not an expert on this and I wish some like Valentin from Russia would come here and post.  I have a huge new book from Russia that supposedly has all the details - I need to get the relative pages translated.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2004, 04:31:10 PM »
Martyn:

On the tiaras - luckily their baggage was not searched when they left the AP.  I am sure the GDs jealously guarded those cases!  Nick told me Alix had her jewel case in Tobolsk and he got this from the Kremlin experts when he was doing the jewels exhibition.

Alix's secret safe in the wall of her bedroom was the size of a large suitcase.

Bob

Offline Martyn

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2004, 05:48:31 PM »
Bob, thank you for that information.  
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2004, 05:56:02 PM »
Martyn:

Nick described the photographs he saw - I never saw them myself.  I kept bugging him about them - but he hadn't been given copies - what a shame!

Now I wish we could get good copies of the photos of the jewels in the GPU files (I am assuming it was the GPU at the time, I can never remember the dates they changed the names of of the CHEKA and which letters should be capitalised!)

Bob

Offline Roman_Candle

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2004, 08:03:08 PM »
Bob,

I was wondering if this has ever been looked at by a ballistics expert, to see if the rounds would bounce or deflect off the individuals when shot.

I understand that it would be too expensive to actually redo a similar senario involving real jewels and gel bodies. It would be interesting to see if a program like "Myth Busters" could see how many rounds would deflect and how many would penetrate.

It just seems to me that even if a pound or two was sewn into the clothing, that the jewels (various sizes and types) are not a solid mass. I would think that most- if not all handgun rounds would muscle their way between the individual jewels to and still hit the person?

I know it's a gory thought, but just to establish facts in the testimony of those involved.








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When watching the high stakes chess matches, I always find myself cheering for "Deep Blue"... I don't know why?  

Offline Kyriaki

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2004, 08:35:12 PM »
thank you for the info, Mr Atchison

I wonder if Queen Mary made an inquiry - or would that have been too risky in case they hoped that the IF were still being held prisoners somewhere
or maybe King G wouldn't have wanted to rattle that cage...

by the way - what is the GPU (is that part of GARF)?

thank you

Offline Martyn

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2005, 10:08:31 AM »
Quote
Martyn:

Nick described the photographs he saw - I never saw them myself.  I kept bugging him about them - but he hadn't been given copies - what a shame!

Now I wish we could get good copies of the photos of the jewels in the GPU files (I am assuming it was the GPU at the time, I can never remember the dates they changed the names of of the CHEKA and which letters should be capitalised!)

Bob


Thanks Bob.  Do you think that Nick could be prevailed upon to give us at least a description of Alix's travelling jewel case?  Sorry to be such a pest, but I really would love to know what it looked like.
It really would be marvellous to have clearer copies of the photos of the jewels that were found in Tobolsk, although I have to say that I was thrilled to be able to see the ones that you have provided for us.  Still, I have two deams - one is to see clearer images of these jewels, the other for the Fersman book to be reprinted (both perhaps unlikely I know....)
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2005, 10:14:17 AM »
Quote
Bob,

I was wondering if this has ever been looked at by a ballistics expert, to see if the rounds would bounce or deflect off the individuals when shot.

I understand that it would be too expensive to actually redo a similar senario involving real jewels and gel bodies. It would be interesting to see if a program like "Myth Busters" could see how many rounds would deflect and how many would penetrate.

It just seems to me that even if a pound or two was sewn into the clothing, that the jewels (various sizes and types) are not a solid mass. I would think that most- if not all handgun rounds would muscle their way between the individual jewels to and still hit the person?

I know it's a gory thought, but just to establish facts in the testimony of those involved.








When watching the high stakes chess matches, I always find myself cheering for "Deep Blue"... I don't know why?  


Is this at all feasible, to re-enact this scenario with real gems?  After all, stones such as rubies, pearls and emeralds are not robust in the same way that diamonds are, as evinced by the shards of precious stones found at the gravesite.  It is quite possible that the impact was lessened or deflected by the metallic settings of the jewels as opposed to any intrinsic hardness of the stones themselves.
Do you think that there is a discrepancy here, that this physically could not happen?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2005, 10:27:37 AM »
The diamonds were not in settings mostly. remember that packets of them were quilted between two thin chemises. Jewels were found in other clothes, and in pillows.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2005, 11:19:55 AM »
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The diamonds were not in settings mostly. remember that packets of them were quilted between two thin chemises. Jewels were found in other clothes, and in pillows.


I think that I need to refresh my ageing memory...Can you remind me where to find the details of the concealment please?
Packets of diamonds would, I imagine, be a fairly concentrated layer of hardness, would it not?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2005, 11:23:04 AM »
Demidova's testimony to Sokolov describes the procedure. It has been discussed many times in other threads.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2005, 11:42:29 AM »
I have always thought it possible that one or more of the guards fired at the walls, ceiling or floor - rather than shoot the girls in the cellar.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2005, 11:56:34 AM »
Quote
Demidova's testimony to Sokolov describes the procedure. It has been discussed many times in other threads.


'Demidova'?  
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

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Re: Questions about Jewels in Clothes
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2005, 12:10:02 PM »
Sorry, obviously not. Thus the problem with multitasking. Tutelberg's testimony.