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Author Topic: Stuart Bastards  (Read 32081 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2005, 09:41:13 AM »
Don't worry Tsaria - I have no children on the way yet.  ;D

However, if anyone is offended by the title of this thread please just let me know via pm and I will change it.

More illegitimate children lists coming later, BTW - if someone else wants to post them, feel free!
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2005, 10:27:56 AM »
Post the children, Prince?   We need a name and address.

tsaria

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bell_the_cat

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2005, 10:48:17 AM »
While we're waiting,

here's something that has always fascinated me here is a list of the current non-royal dukes:

The Duke of Norfolk (1483 or 1514)
The Duke of Somerset (1547)
The Duke of Richmond, Lennox, and Gordon (1675)
The Duke of Grafton (1675)
The Duke of Beaufort (1682)
The Duke of St Albans (1684)
The Duke of Bedford (1694)
The Duke of Devonshire (1694)
The Duke of Marlborough (1702)
The Duke of Rutland (1703)
The Duke of Hamilton and Brandon (1644)
The Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry (1663)
The Duke of Argyll (1701)
The Duke of Atholl (1703)
The Duke of Montrose (1707)
The Duke of Roxburghe (1707)
The Duke of Manchester (1719)
The Duke of Northumberland (1766)
The Duke of Wellington (1814)
The Duke of Sutherland (1831)
The Duke of Abercorn (1868)
The Duke of Westminster (1874)
The Duke of Fife (1900)
and The Duke of Leinster (Irish Duke)

who until recently (2001) were automatically entitled to sit in the House of Lords. There are 24 in all.

Many of these creations are directly the results of the mésalliances of Charles and James. Most of the others are direct descendants.

Richmond, Grafton, Beaufort and St Albans were created for Charles II's bastards (I think this word is OK!).

The Dukes of Buccleuch are descended from the Duke of Monmouth. The title was created for his wife, Anne Scott.

John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough was the brother of James' mistress Arabella Churchill.

Somerset was created for the brother of Henry VIII's wife, Jane Seymour (not exactly a mistress I know).

Can anyone think of any other dukedom/ royal mistress connections? I personally think it's nothing for them to be ashamed of!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2005, 02:37:24 PM »
Quote
Post the children, Prince?   We need a name and address.

tsaria



;D ;D ;D

Does anyone else find it interesting that the only child the Young Pretender was known to have was a bastard called Charlotte, whom he showed no interest in until his marriage broke down, when he 'conferred' the title of 'Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Albany' on her . . .
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2005, 03:10:09 PM »
James V of Scotland's illegitimate issue

By Elizabeth or Katherine Carmichael
-John, Prior of Coldingham (1531-1563). He married Jean Bothwell and had issue. She was, I think, the sister of the Bothwell who married Mary I.

By Margaret, daughter of Lord Erskine
-James Stewart, Earl of Moray and Mar (1531-1570). He married Lady Agnes Keith and had issue. He was Regent for his nephew James VI.

By Euphemia, daughter of Lord Elphinstone
-Robert, Earl of Orkney (1533-1591). He married Lady Janet Kennedy and had issue.

By Elizabeth Shaw
-James Stewart, Abbot of Kelso (1529-1557)

By Lady Elizabeth Stewart
-Adam, Prior of Charterhouse. He married Janet Ruthven.

By Elizabeth Bethune
-Jean. She married Archibald Campbell, Earl of Argyll, though they were later divorced.

By unknown mothers
-Robert (d. 1581)
-Margaret
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2005, 04:05:24 PM »
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Albany - discussion about the only, known, offspring of Charles Edward Stuart will continue on the Charles Edward Stuart thread.

Thanks.

tsaria
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2005, 04:28:48 PM »
As you wish, Tsaria.

Now, the illegitimate children of James IV:

By Marion Boyd
-Alexander Stewart, Archbishop of St Andrews (1493-1513). He was killed at the Battle of Flodden.
-Katherine (d. after 1554). She married James Douglas, Earl of Morton, and had issue.

By Janet Kennedy
-James Stewart, Earl of Moray (1499-1554/5). He married Lady Elizabeth Campbell and had issue.
-Two children who died young.

By Margaret, daughter of John, Lord Drummond
-Margaret (perhaps born in 1497). She married firstly John, Lord Gordon and had issue and married secondly Sir John Drummond and had issue.

By Lady Isabella Stewart
-Janet/Joan (d. 1560/63). She married John, Lord Fleming, and had issue.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2005, 05:40:59 AM »
Quote
By Lady Isabella Stewart
-Janet/Joan (d. 1560/63). She married John, Lord Fleming, and had issue.



This Lady Fleming accompanied her niece Queen Mary Stuart to France. She there had an affair with King Henry II of France that ended in a pregnancy. Lady Fleming was banished from the Court until she gave birth to a son, Henri de Valois (a.k.a le Chevalier d'Angoulême; lived 1551-1586). When her son was born she was sent to Scotland again without him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2005, 06:35:55 AM »
This week two new plays about Marie Stuart open in London.   Both of them focus on her last months and conclude her connivance in the plot.

Mary Queen of Scots remains a character of perpetual fascination.  

tsaria
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umigon

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2005, 06:46:19 AM »


I agree, Tsaria, at least she has always been fascinating for me!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2005, 10:36:57 AM »
Quote


This Lady Fleming accompanied her niece Queen Mary Stuart to France. She there had an affair with King Henry II of France that ended in a pregnancy. Lady Fleming was banished from the Court until she gave birth to a son, Henri de Valois (a.k.a le Chevalier d'Angoulême; lived 1551-1586). When her son was born she was sent to Scotland again without him.


:o Thanks Umigon! I knew the 'Lady Fleming' story with Henri II but I never knew she was James IV's daughter! Learn something knew every day . . .   :o
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2005, 11:01:33 AM »
Lady Fleming found herself pregnant with the King's child at the same time as Catherine. She behaved outrageously, announcing her condition in appalling French to who ever would listen. When the child was born Henry recognised him as his own and gave him the name of Henri Chevalier d'Angouleme. He was raised alongside the other royal children and became Grand Prior of France. The man was noted for his extreme cruelty-particularly during the St Bartholomews Day Massacre and was eventually killed in a duel in 1586.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2005, 11:04:39 AM »
Interesting info, Kim . . . Stewart + Valois did not make a pleasant mix!!

Regarding Charles II's youngest illegitimate child, does anyone know why he chose to call her 'Mary Tudor' - hardly a name with good associations in the minds of the Anglican population.  ???
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2005, 11:46:27 AM »
Maybe a joke? :-/
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2005, 11:51:50 AM »
Hmm . . . not in very good taste then.  :-/

I find it very amusing that so many of Charles' sons had the same name - James or Charles. That wouldn't have happened had they been legitimate.  ;)
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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