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Author Topic: Stuart Bastards  (Read 32082 times)

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bell_the_cat

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2005, 11:54:36 AM »
Charles had a funny sense of humour. He would pass little notes around during cabinet meetings and giggle at private jokes.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2005, 11:59:22 AM »
IMO, Charles was a very witty man. Now, if one had to be stuck on a desert island with one English monarch . . .   ;D
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2005, 12:18:30 PM »
I feel a thread coming on...... ::)
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Modena

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2005, 04:34:09 PM »
Quote
Here is a thread to discuss the illegitimate children of the Stuart monarchs, and to post pics.

I will start us off with a list.
Bastards of Charles II
By Margaret de Carteret
-James de Carteret (1646-1667). Charles was 16 when he was born!  ShockedWe were talking about Mary II being sexually active at about 15, well her uncle certainly was!
 
By Lucy Walter
-James Scott, Duke of Monmouth (1649-1685). He always claimed that his parents were married, but never produced any evidence.Married Anne Scott, heiress of the dukes of Buccleuch and had issue, who I will list later.
 
-Mary Stuart (1658-1693). It is possible Charles was not her father.
 
By Elizabeth Killigrew, Viscountess Shannon
-Charlotte Jemima Henrietta Maria FitzRoy (1650-1684). She married William Paston, Earl of Yarmouth, and had isuue I will list later. I bet the pious Queen Henrietta Maria loved the fact that this bastard had her names!
 
By Catherine Pegge
-Charles FitzCharles, 1st Earl of Plymouth (1657-1680). He married Lady Briget Osborne.
 
-Catherine FitzCharles (1658-1759).She was a nun and lived to be 101!!!!
 
By  Barbara Villiers, Duchess of Cleveland
-Charles Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Southampton (1662-1730). He married Anne Poultney and had issue, to be listed later.
 
-Sir Henry Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Grafton (1663-1690). He married Lady Isabella Bennet, Countess of Arlington and has issue.
 
-Lady Charlotte Fitzroy (1664-171Cool. She married Edward Lee, Earl of Lichfield and had children.
 
-George Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Northumberland (1665-1716).  He married Mary Dutton.
 
By Eleanor ('Nell') Gywn
-Charles Beauclerk, 1st Duke of St. Albans (1760-1726). He married Lady Diana de Vere and had issue.
 
-James Beauclerk, Lord Beauclerk (1671-1680).
 
By Louise Renée de Penancoët de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth
-Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond (1672-1723). He married Anne Budenell and had issue.
 
By Moll Davies
-Mary Tudor (1673-1726). She married Edward Ratcliffe,  Earl of D-e-r-w-e-n-t-w-a-t-e-r and had issue.  

Bastards of James II
 -with Arabella Churchill
1. Lady Henrietta Fitzjames (1667-1730). She married Henry Waldergrave, Baron Waldergrave of Chewton.
 
2. James Fitzjames, Duke of Berwick (1670-1734). He married  firstly Lady Honora Burke and second Lady Anne Bulkeley.
 
3. Henry Fitzjames, Duke of Albermarle (1673-1702). He married Marie Gabrielle d'Audibert.
 
4. Lady Arabella Fitzjames (1674-1704). She was a nun with the name of Ignatia.
 
-with Katherine Sedley, Countess of Dorchester
1. Lady Catherine Darnley (1681-1743). She married firstly James Annelessy, Earl of Anglesea and secondly John Sheffield, Duke of Buckingham.
 
2. James Darnley (1684-85)
 
-unknown mother
1. Charles Darnley (died very young).

I will post more lists tomorrow!



Maybe  ;D the post could have been called "alleged" Stuart bastards because other men probably fathered them.
For instance, the Duke of Monmouth and one of Charles II's sons by the Duchess of Cleveland (the middle one?) were said not to have much resemblance to their royal "father", and Catherine Darnley was teased by her own mother than her real father was some employee of James II, that she was really not royal.


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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2005, 05:23:10 PM »
I never heard the Duke of Monmouth's paternity doubted!  :o
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Modena

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2005, 05:29:41 PM »
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I never heard the Duke of Monmouth's paternity doubted!  :o


;D Really?

James II never believed he was Charles II's son.  :-X
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2005, 05:33:48 PM »
Wow, can you quote sources?  :o
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Modena

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2005, 05:55:56 PM »
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Wow, can you quote sources?  :o


;D I'll try, but I don't know if I can today! :)

I have tons of books on the Stuarts, and think I read something in one of them, but I wonder if James II's belief in another man (whom he names) as being the Duke of Monmouth's "real" father is on the www.jacobite.ca site.

I am trying to think just WHERE I read/saw this. :) Arggh!!!  ;D
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2005, 02:15:46 AM »
Quote

 ;D I'll try, but I don't know if I can today! :)

I have tons of books on the Stuarts, and think I read something in one of them, but I wonder if James II's belief in another man (whom he names) as being the Duke of Monmouth's "real" father is on the www.jacobite.ca site.

I am trying to think just WHERE I read/saw this. :) Arggh!!!  ;D


However Charles II believed that Monmouth was his son, which is surely the important thing!
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Modena

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2005, 07:40:46 AM »
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However Charles II believed that Monmouth was his son, which is surely the important thing!


It didn't help Monmouth, if anything it helped him to his dismal end, believing he was the first born son a King!  8)
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ilyala

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2005, 07:44:26 AM »
yes, but he was a bastard. at best. that meant he had no claim to the throne
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Modena

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2005, 07:52:10 AM »
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yes, but he was a bastard. at best. that meant he had no claim to the throne


But tell him that.  :D ;) :-X heh heh.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2005, 07:56:20 AM »
Monmouth always claimed that Charles had married his mother, Lucy Walter, but made no attempt to prove it.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2005, 08:29:08 AM »
i don't think anyone believed that. not even him...  :P
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palatine

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2005, 02:39:02 PM »
When Monmouth was a little boy, one of his tutors, Thomas Ross, encouraged him to believe that his parents had been secretly married.   The tutor was removed once Charles realized what he was doing, but the damage was done.  Monmouth sincerely believed that his parents had been secretly married, and, unfortunately, he was encouraged to do so by politicians who were desperate to prevent James from coming to the throne.  

James believed that Monmouth's real father was a man named Robert Sidney:  "The knowing world, as well as myself had many convincing proofs to think he was not the king's son but Robert Sydney's.  After her being with the King, she proved so soon with child, and came so near the time, that the world had cause to doubt whose son Monmouth was.  When he grew a man he proved the likest thing I ever saw, even to a very wart on his face."  

Source: "King Monmouth" by Allen Fea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »
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