Author Topic: Who had measles when?  (Read 25968 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Who had measles when?
« on: June 03, 2005, 07:42:33 PM »
I've just been reading Lili Dehn's account of the abdication, and it's gotten me all muddled  :-[

I know there are some inaccuracies in her account regarding which of the Little Pair were healthy & up and around at various points during the abdication, but I can't remember the details.  Is it true that Olga, Tatiana, and Alexei were ill first, followed later by Anastasia, and finally Maria? And wasn't it Maria who accompanied the tsarina when she pleaded with the palace guard?

If someone can refer me back to a more reliable version of the story, I'd sure appreciate it -- I'm suddenly having trouble sorting out what I read where!
Thanks,
Sarah
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Offline Lanie

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2005, 07:48:20 PM »
I think Olga and Alexei got sick first, then Tatiana, then Anastasia and finally Maria who had double pneumonia on top of it and was given oxygen.  Maria and Olga were the two that were deathly ill, Maria moreso than Olga with the pneumonia.

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2005, 10:26:15 PM »
Was Maria really so ill that she had to be given oxygen? Aww, poor thing. I never knew that.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2005, 09:27:30 AM »
Poor thing was very sick.

Now, with all the vacines,  young and old no longer have to suffer such terrible things like the measles.  I remember as a kid, everytime I wanted to do something special I'd come down with a different type of measles.  The worst case was that of the "German measles".  I don't know the acutal name but that is what my Mom called it.  Had to be in the dark, felt terrible and it seem to last forever....

I went looking for other threads which have been buried, and, found this quote of mine from the last time I went on a search:

Quote
I'm  looking for the thread where we talked about the girls and the measles.

AGRBear

#1
#2 - Medical History of the Imperial Family: http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1095331184;start=0#0
#3 OTMA and the Measles, Tyhoid and Other Illness: http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1088533805
#4 - A little was mention in Serious Claimants:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=loonies;action=display;num=1087862809;start=25

Still haven't found the right one where people even sent photos.
Seems like we talked about it around the date of June 29, 2004...
I'm  looking......

This has nothing to do with the measles but it does on hair.
Alix's Hair:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1081244369

Grand Duchesses's Hair:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1091442998

Hair Dressers:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1089290365

OTMA:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1082563750

Well, haven't found it yet and it doesn't come up on SEARCH.  Meanwhile,  I am learning about hair  ;D


Lanie wrote on one of our locked down threads the following:
   
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Re: For Serious Claimants, Please
« Reply #28 on: Jun 29th, 2004, 1:57pm »

>>The children had the measles following a little party given for various youngsters Alexei's age in February 1917 I believe; one of them had the measles, I guess, and they ended up all coming down with it.  The medicine made their hair fall out (I think) so their heads were shaved<<
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2005, 11:46:48 AM »
According to Vyrubova, Maria was so ill with pneumonia that at one point everyone expected her to die. I can't remember if she was given last rites or not. But I've often thought it strange that Alexei's bouts of illness get so much attention from biographers, whereas Maria's nearly fatal illness gets next to none. (It's so ironic that she could easily have died in March or April 1917, and only survived to be murdered a year later.) And can you imagine what a terrible strain Maria's illness must have been on Nicholas and Alexandra? - Only weeks after the abdication they had to confront the possibility that one of their children was dying.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2005, 05:22:38 PM »
Quote
I can't remember if she was given last rites or not.
- Although 'last rites' is perhaps not the best term for it, as the Mystery (Sacrement) of Annointing is different for Orthodox than Catholics, and is not reserved for the dying, but for anyone who is ill physically or spiritually. In Holy Week we all partake of this Annointing in a very long ceremony, and in it, forgotten sins are cleansed. So while the service of Annointing would be used for someone who is in danger of dying, it is not really 'last rites'.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2005, 07:03:07 PM »
Interestingly enough no one also talks about Maria having her tonsils removed in December 1914 (I believe it was December!  THere's a note from Maria to Alix talking about how she's feeling better but she's still swollen, etc); she haemorrhaged (spelled it wrong, I know!) and the doctor was agitated and Alix calmly told him to continue the operation.  Maria was probably a symptomatic hemophilia carrier, although she was the healthiest of the Imperial children (how odd! and sad!).

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2005, 09:16:03 PM »
I read somewhere (most likely "Nicholas and Alexandra" by Robert K. Massie) that Tatiana was almost deaf because of  her measles and that she only knew her father abdication after Alix wrote it in a paper to her to read. When the Empress explain the fact to her, speaking, she didn't hear a single word... :-/ My own grandaunty had measles when little girl, and she is partially deaf .

RealAnastasia

Offline Lanie

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2005, 09:19:24 PM »
I've read Tatiana talking about her deafness from a letter from Tobolsk in late 1917, early 1918; she said that she was only half deaf in one ear and her hearing was much better, etc etc.

Offline Sarastasia

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 12:47:09 PM »
I think Olga and Alexei got sick first, then Tatiana, then Anastasia and finally Maria who had double pneumonia on top of it and was given oxygen.  Maria and Olga were the two that were deathly ill, Maria moreso than Olga with the pneumonia.

So in which order did they recover? Presumably, Olga and Maria last...

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 01:08:19 PM »
The Big Pair and Aleksei recovered first, followed by Anastasia and then Maria. Olga had the highest fever and pericarditis, Tatiana had abcesses in her ears, and Maria had double pneumonia. Anastasia and Aleksei presumably had run-of-the-mill measles.

When Kerensky visited, the Little Pair were still sick in bed, but Olga, Tatiana, and Aleksei were all well enough to meet him with their parents.
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Offline EmmyLee

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 02:39:53 PM »
This was a very good question, Sarushka. I hadn't thought much about the order in which the children got the measles. And especially the point Elisabeth made about Nicholas and Alexandra having to deal with Maria's possible death so soon after the abdication. The children's illnesses must have put such a strain on the already stressed family.

Offline Sarastasia

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2008, 03:18:47 PM »
This 'double pneumonia' that you refer to, what is it? Is it just pneumonia in both lungs as opposed to just one??

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2008, 03:47:20 PM »
This 'double pneumonia' that you refer to, what is it? Is it just pneumonia in both lungs as opposed to just one??

Yes, that's exactly what it is. We almost lost my baby sister to this many years ago. With care at the City of Hope, she pulled through and went on to have two children of her own and one grandchild so far.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Who had measles when?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2008, 04:21:57 PM »
This was a very good question, Sarushka. I hadn't thought much about the order in which the children got the measles. And especially the point Elisabeth made about Nicholas and Alexandra having to deal with Maria's possible death so soon after the abdication. The children's illnesses must have put such a strain on the already stressed family.

In fact, if the children hadn't been ill the empress and OTMAA might have been able to flee Tsarskoye Selo before the tsar had even abdicated. When Rodzianko recommended they prepare to leave, Dr. Botkin informed the empress that the Big Pair were still too sick to be transported without risking their lives.
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