Marie Feodorovna--WWI and the Crimea

[Alixz]

I just got through reading the section in Flight of the Romanovs about the Crimea.

In this book it is short and  not covered as it is in Little Mother of Russia, but in all of the accounts, what comes through is the impossible fact that MF and most of her suite were completely in a fantasy world.

They still tried to live as they always had and to be as imperious as possible.  They seemed not to get the fact that they were no longer in charge.  

Various authors interpret the facts to suit their telling of the tale and some see MF as "heroic ' and some as "keeping her sense of humor" and almost all believe that she kept her faith in the future.

All of this is probably true, but when I read that Nicolasha's wife tried to "beat off with a broom"  the German officer who came to see them after the Treaty of Brest-Litvosk was signed and the Crimea fell to the Germans as a regretable lack of sanity.

Everyone, including MF seemed far too interested in small things and possessions and their pets rather than the fact that they were in mortal danger!

Even when she finally agreed to leave on the Marlborough, MF gave her rescuers a hard time.  To her credit, she wanted everyone who could leave to able to leave and she stayed until the last to see it through, but she might have gotten them all killed and she probably gave many more grey hairs to the people in charge of helping her to leave.

I have noticed a similar strain in all of the Romanovs when it came to being rescued or being helped.  They almost seemed to think that they could "choose" their rescuers and time and place of rescue instead of accepting the help when it came.  They tended not to cooperate.

And, (we all know that Anna Anderson was not Anastasia) even Anna Anderson had that impossible attitude.  She refused to help those who would have helped her by not cooperating with them.  I would imagine that that was one of the reasons that so many thought that she truly was Anastasia.  It semed to be a "Romanov trait".

[grandduchessella]

I've always gotten that impression too--that despite the dangers around them, some of which were made crystal-clear, the fact that death could be imminent just doesn't seem to have sunk it. Perhaps it seemed impossible to those raised in such an autocracy, surrounded by police and private detectives, that anyone could just come in, arrest and perhaps execute them.

We've discussed this mindset on some of the various threads dealing with the potential rescue of the Romanovs, the revocation of asylum, etc...No one seemed cognizant of the facts until it was too late--not those in foreign countries, nor those who had it staring them in the face. The British had even sent a warship to the Crimea to pick them up, QA implored her sister to leave and yet, still, it was months before the offer was accepted.

Poor GD George M. even escaped to Finland, but felt secure enough to return, whereupon he was arrested and later shot.

[dp5486]

I think the only one who fully realized it was Olga. In her biography she recalls how their nice guard, can't remember his name at the moment, would not look them in the eye and he told her it was because he didn't like to look into the eyes of those that he perhaps would have to kill. She realized that as nice as he was, if told to kill them all he would. She was also the only one to actually leave the group and find her own escape. She realized her young sons were in danger and decided to do what she could for them.

[lababoc]

A new book was published in Denmark about  dowager  Empress Marie Feodorovna years in Crimea(1917 to 1919)

[LisaDavidson]

I think the only one who fully realized it was Olga. In her biography she recalls how their nice guard, can't remember his name at the moment, would not look them in the eye and he told her it was because he didn't like to look into the eyes of those that he perhaps would have to kill. She realized that as nice as he was, if told to kill them all he would. She was also the only one to actually leave the group and find her own escape. She realized her young sons were in danger and decided to do what she could for them.

I believe it was a bit different than that. Olga's husband was fighting in the Civil War and she was pregnant when they left the Crimea with their eldest son. Her second son was born during the Civil War in 1919. I don't think Olga was any more savvy about her potential fate than the rest of her family, it was her circumstances that were different.

She was in a lose/lose situation. She was not accepted by other royals due to her second marriage. She was not accepted in Russia because she was born part of the Romanov dynasty which was hated during that time. I don't think that her sons were in any special political  danger as they were babies at the time and not royal. Rather, she realized there was no place in Russia for her and her family, so she escaped from the coast of the Black Sea and made her way back to Europe.

To imply that Olga had control over her fate and that of her sons is to totally miss the point about her. She became an emigre before she turned 40 and spent the rest of her life missing her home. Olga did a good job of adjusting herself to her circumstances, but that is not the same as "deciding to do what she could for them" (her sons). No, when it was definite that the Whites were losing the war, she did what she was compelled by circumstances to do.

[Eric_Lowe]

Olga did the best she could...An added factor was that unlike the others, she did not miss the glamour. 

[LisaDavidson]

Olga did the best she could...An added factor was that unlike the others, she did not miss the glamour. 

In truth, we don't know for certain whether or not this was so or not. Certainly Olga is portrayed in exile as having "the common touch" and not caring about jewels and the trappings of royalty. I suspect the truth is far more complex. Olga A. was never a glamorous person to begin with, so really, what was there for her to miss? Her mother regarded her similarly to the way her Aunt Alexandra regarded her daughter Toria - as a kind of glorified assistant. Neither of these cousins was a glamorous dresser, but both were well dressed and certainly had jewels and priviledged existences.

I think Olga gloried in her indepedence both before and after the Revolution, and loved being out from underneath her mother's thumb. But, I thinik she also missed her brother and his family deeply. Yes, she may have done what she could with what she had, but she was also a sad and traumatized exile after she left Russia and it's a disservice to her to portray her otherwise.

[Eric_Lowe]

I think Olga owed her personal happiiness to the revolution, where her second marriage was accepted. Had the revolution not came, she may had to live a lie with Peter of Oldenburg. So in a sense, Olga A was liberatyed. 

[grandduchessella]

But she was married for the 2nd time in Nov 1916 before the Revolution. Having been given permission to wed by her brother (as opposed to sneaking off) she may well have had a comfortable life with her new husband and children, still close to her brother and his family, had the Revolution not happened.

[Eric_Lowe]

She was married during the war, when the priority shifted towards patroitsm than court nicies. Even Michen (who would have objected during peace times) was busy with her nursing train. No...If there was no war or revolution, Olga A may not have found her happiness. 

[grandduchessella]

I agree about the war but you had said that "owed her personal happiiness to the revolution". The effects of the war movement on the priorities of the Imperial family is a different story.

[Eric_Lowe]

I mean because of the changed circumstances (war & Revolution) Olga A was able to wed the man of her choice. Otherwise, as she said Peter of Oldenburg was happy to leave things as they were...

[LisaDavidson]

I mean because of the changed circumstances (war & Revolution) Olga A was able to wed the man of her choice. Otherwise, as she said Peter of Oldenburg was happy to leave things as they were...

But, Eric, there is no evidence to support this. Certainly Olga A could have married according to her own wishes after the Revolution, but she didn't. Why?  Because she was already married to the man of her choice before the Revolution. So, circumstances alone disprove your contention as it applies to the Revolution.

As this applies to the War, no one in the Imperial House to my knowledge other than Olga A married during the War. Why did she marry Kulikovsky when she did? Possibly because she was no longer living under the same roof with Peter of Oldenburg along with Kulikovsky as they had done for the previous decade. However, many members of the dynasty were living in such unconventional arrangements and none of them except for Olga married one another during the War. Thus, unless I can see some evidence to the contrary, I would say it was their inability to maintain the sham marriage that caused the divorce and remarriage and not the war.

[Eric_Lowe]

Certainly the war put a lot of things into prepective. Even Misha was welcomed back from exile. It did led to the relaxing of the rules (such penalites when Kyrill, Misha and Paul married was not applied to Olga A was a good evidence of this change). A paralell case would be Anastasia Mikailovna (Grand Duchess of Mecklenberg-Scherwin), who lived with her husband and had a secret love child. 

[LisaDavidson]

Certainly the war put a lot of things into prepective. Even Misha was welcomed back from exile. It did led to the relaxing of the rules (such penalites when Kyrill, Misha and Paul married was not applied to Olga A was a good evidence of this change). A paralell case would be Anastasia Mikailovna (Grand Duchess of Mecklenberg-Scherwin), who lived with her husband and had a secret love child. 

But, you are mixing apples and oranges here. Anastasia Mikhailovna was not part of the Imperial house, she was part of Mecklenberg-Schwerin. Kiril was restored to his titles years before the war - in 1909. His situation was thus normalized before the war, it had nothing to do with it. Paul and Mikhail were allowed to return to Russia to help with the war effort, and Misha was hardly "welcomed" back. Olga's situation was hardly comparable to that of the Grand Dukes. Nicholas did not punish Olga for her marriage, but this likely had nothing to to do with the war, as I have pointed out.

Please stop trying to fit the circumstances to your theories. If you have proof that will support them, fine, present it.