Author Topic: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra  (Read 74768 times)

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Romanov

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Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« on: October 13, 2004, 05:52:47 PM »
I know Alix and Minny always had a rough relationship,but how did it start and how did it end up in the end of there lives? I know that on  one occasion they fought over jewels but dont know the exact nature of this fight...and would like to.
                                                Sam

Offline lilavanderhorn

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 06:15:56 PM »
I don't think they ever really had "words" with each other.  Their relationship was strained, I only think this is natural when a man is devoted to his mother and his wife.  Maybe it was more of a silent hostility and some badmouthing behind each other's backs, not to mention, they may have driven Nicholas somewhat crazy in trying to please them both.   I bet Minnie was only too happy that Alix was shy, so that she could stay in the middle of the spotlight.  She probably never came out and told Alix to "know her place", so Alix suffered in silence.  Hahaha, I can imagine Minnie rolling her eyes at another of Alix's absences and headaches, and Alix rolling her eyes at Minnie's insistance on putting herself as "first empress."

leanora

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 06:23:31 PM »
During the reign of Alexander III, marie feodorovna had obtained from her husband to keep the crown jewels at her home (the Anitchok palace). It would permit her to avoid the discomfort of asking them to the Court officials every time she wanted to wear them.

When Nicholas II was propelled onto the throne, his mother refused to relinquish the jewels, which belonged to the state and by right were worn by the reigning empress.

it seems that the roughness of the relationships between the two women came from their big differences of caracters and behaviours, Alexandra was said too "puritan", haughty,  prudish, snobbish, and empty of charm. She disliked the society of St petersburg while Marie feodorovna loved it. Add to this that Marie Feodorovna was a possessive mother, and she wanted Nicholas to be with her the most of the time.

So it would have been difficult for them to  get on well. They were too "exclusive". it seems that the strains began just after their wedding when Nicholas and Alexandra were forced to live with the empress dowager. it also seems that their lack of sympathy lasted all their lifelong, and became deeper during the time of rasputin.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 10:43:06 PM »
While their relationship was politely strained during most of Nicholas & Alexandra's marriage, the Rasputin situation brought it into open warfare. MF moved to Kiev during WWI largely because Nicholas made it clear that Alexandra was getting her way about GIR, no matter what Mama said. Alexandra said some pretty hateful things about them both. It's really sad that this is how things stood at the time of the Revolution - and they were never repaired. Xenia said of her sister in law"that woman made a dish rag out of my brother Nicky". Sad, really sad.

Romanov

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2004, 04:18:29 PM »
Wow, I dident know it was that bad! :-/

JonC

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2004, 05:05:34 PM »
To all.

This is an interesting subject. I never thought there was a problem between the two. Can anyone suggest a book to read which may highlight the said relationship?
Best regards. JonC.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2004, 05:38:24 PM »
I really like "Little Mother of Russia" by Coryne Hall. It's available through Eurohistory.com (I got an autographed copy) and Amazon.

The best Alexandra biography is Greg King's - also available through these sources.

Nothing has been specifically about their relationship - it would be an interesting article. Perhaps we can persuade Coryne Hall to write one?

JonC

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 05:51:35 PM »
Lisa.

Thanks for the reference. I am deffinitely going to buy a copy of Ms. Hall's book. Best regards. JonC.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2004, 11:33:00 PM »
Please let us know if you enjoy it. I think Coryne did a fabulous job of researching MF's life.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2004, 08:00:35 AM »
The Coryne Hall book is really very good - can't recommend it enough.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Angie_H

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2005, 01:45:30 PM »
I recently got the book "Born to Rule" by Julia P. Gelardi & it had an interesting part in it. Right after N & A got married Louise of Denmark urged her daughter Minny to work at being a good mother-in-law toward Alix. She wrote:
"For yours & Nicky's sake start treating her like your own child, without fear, right away. I have done wrong by Louise (wife of Crown Prince Frederick) & therefore spoiled Freddy's life, & she is pulling him away from me, this is where I am afraid for you: and therefore I am warning you- Pull her (Alix) towards you, then you will keep him & pull her towards you with love! God help you if you lose Nicky's trust and love, it will be the death of you."
She obviously didn't heed her mother's advice
Angie

JaneEyre5381

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2005, 03:29:18 PM »
Angie, thank you very much for that particular passage.  I got "Born To Rule" last weekend and am looking forward to reading it after the semester ends.  The advice of Queen Louise should have been taken by Minnie, but as we know through history, just the opposte took place.  Perhaps things would have turned out differently, but that is only my speculation.  I think that thier conflict was the typical clash of personalities, among other things of course.  

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2005, 04:44:33 PM »
Quote
Angie, thank you very much for that particular passage.  I got "Born To Rule" last weekend and am looking forward to reading it after the semester ends.  The advice of Queen Louise should have been taken by Minnie, but as we know through history, just the opposte took place.  Perhaps things would have turned out differently, but that is only my speculation.  I think that thier conflict was the typical clash of personalities, among other things of course.  

Dasha
I think you're right about the personality thing. One of the reasons she & AIII objected to Alix as a bride was because her shyness was well known and they didn't think she could handle being Tsarina. BUT! Once Nicky had married Alix, Minny should have tried, her mother's advice was on target. But instead of helping the awkward girl, Minny just put herself forward

JaneEyre5381

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2005, 05:01:49 PM »
 
Quote
Dasha
I think you're right about the personality thing. One of the reasons she & AIII objected to Alix as a bride was because her shyness was well known and they didn't think she could handle being Tsarina. BUT! Once Nicky had married Alix, Minny should have tried, her mother's advice was on target. But instead of helping the awkward girl, Minny just put herself forward

Angie, I agree with you one hundred precent.  Minnie indeed didn't help the situation.  I think during the first months of her son's marriage she had a lot of opportunities to help Alix adjust and to get closer to her.  After all, they all lived under one roof.  Alix felt ignored and instead of helping Minnie just made it worse by her behavior.  Of course it takes two to tango, so I'm more then positive that Alix had her share of contributions to this whole scenario as well.  In so many ways this a typical mother/daughter-in-law power struggles.

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2005, 06:52:44 PM »
Quote
While their relationship was politely strained during most of Nicholas & Alexandra's marriage, the Rasputin situation brought it into open warfare. MF moved to Kiev during WWI largely because Nicholas made it clear that Alexandra was getting her way about GIR, no matter what Mama said. Alexandra said some pretty hateful things about them both. It's really sad that this is how things stood at the time of the Revolution - and they were never repaired. Xenia said of her sister in law"that woman made a dish rag out of my brother Nicky". Sad, really sad.


Although Minnie and Alix may have a strained relationship, Alix and Xenia were actually very close in those early years before Alexei was born.

When you see towards the end how wrecked Nicholas and Alix's relationships were with those who had been close to them such as Ella, Sandro, Xenia,  and Olga. It does seem very, very sad as those who had once been close to them where now on Minnie's court.