Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra

[Angie_H]

Of course it takes two to tango, so I'm more then positive that Alix had her share of contributions to this whole scenario as well.  In so many ways this a typical mother/daughter-in-law power struggles.

True, probably if Minny had made attempts to help Alix, Alix would have seen it as her mother-in-law telling her what to do instead of seeing it as her mother-in-law trying to help

[JaneEyre5381]

True, probably if Minny had made attempts to help Alix, Alix would have seen it as her mother-in-law telling her what to do instead of seeing it as her mother-in-law trying to help

I agree again Angie.  You have a lot of good insights on this particular topic.  Keep sharing your thoughts, please.

[ashanti01]

I don't think either Minnie or Alix ever really tired to get along.  Maybe they were too different for there to have ever have been a relationship formed.

I also think Minnie did a lot things she didn't realize hurt Alix's feelings. When Minnie was a young bride, her mother in law almost never stayed for the balls and always allowed Minnie to take the spot light. Maybe because she never knew what it was like to have your mother in law come before you, she didn't realize how hurt one could be by it, especially during offical functions.

[Val289]

Dasha, Angie and ashanti01 - I think you all have provided some great insight regarding the relationship between Alix and Minnie.

Had Minnie taken her mother's advice, perhaps things might have been very different.   If she had extended her hand to Alix in love and friendship I think that Alix may have responded well to it.  However, Minnie and Alix were very different personalities - perhaps they were just too different to have a friendly, rather than cordial - mother-in-law/daughter-in-law relationship.  I think someone else mentioned on another thread that had Alexander III been around, he would have helped to encourage a friendly relationship between the two woman, as well.  And Nicholas - well, I think he was rather caught between a rock and a hard spot regarding the these two strong women!  

[Angie_H]

I don't think either Minnie or Alix ever really tired to get along.  Maybe they were too different for there to have ever have been a relationship formed.

I also think Minnie did a lot things she didn't realize hurt Alix's feelings. When Minnie was a young bride, her mother in law almost never stayed for the balls and always allowed Minnie to take the spot light. Maybe because she never knew what it was like to have your mother in law come before you, she didn't realize how hurt one could be by it, especially during offical functions.

By the time Minny married into the family her mother-in-law was not  in the best of health to be in the spot light. Perhaps of because of Minnys upbringing she didn't want to give up the spotlight so soon. Her family was royal but they did not have a fortune to live like other royalty. Christian IX's family lived relatively simple compared to other royalty til he ascended the Denmark throne, and she was widowed at a young age. Unlike other countries (I believe), she was the Dowager, but in Russia she had precedence over the reigning Empress which she took full advantage of (I believe other Dowager Empresses simply "faded" in the background so the reigning Empress could take precedence)

[ashanti01]

By the time Minny married into the family her mother-in-law was not  in the best of health to be in the spot light. Perhaps of because of Minnys upbringing she didn't want to give up the spotlight so soon. Her family was royal but they did not have a fortune to live like other royalty. Christian IX's family lived relatively simple compared to other royalty til he ascended the Denmark throne, and she was widowed at a young age. Unlike other countries (I believe), she was the Dowager, but in Russia she had precedence over the reigning Empress which she took full advantage of (I believe other Dowager Empresses simply "faded" in the background so the reigning Empress could take precedence)

Hi Angie,
I had read about Dowager Empresses "fading" into background and allowing the new Empress to take the spot light, but I believe ( I could be wrong) this issue had never taken palace before in Russia.

Also,  I believe it was Minnie who told Queen Alexandra after her husband died, that she should take precedence over Queen Mary.   Causing some troubles in the English royal family.

I see your point, and I can see why you woudn't want to give up the spotlight, but I still think at some point and time, The Dowager Empresses should have realized this could be hurting Alexandra's feelings.

But like it has been said, they were two different characters with two different backgrounds. Minnie was at ease at social functions because she had been around the Russian culture for years before she became Empress, I believe Alexandra had a few days? Maybe weeks?

Perhaps if both woman had been more willing to met each other half way, things could have been different. But I think any young bride would have taken thier mother in law's " words of advise" to heart, and maybe Alix took it too personally.  I think I read once, Minnie tried to give Alix advise on how to handle social functions but Alix became upset and shrugged her off.
It seemed it was a difficult relationship from the start.

[Natalya]

Can anyone explain how they got Feodorovna added to their names?  I thought it was a name added for the empresses, but then somes I see Alexandra's sister Ella listed as Elizabeth Feodorovna, too.

[bluetoria]

Hello Natalya  

There is a whole thread about this on page 1 of the Empress Alexandra section. I would post the link but STILL haven't learned how to do it   (sorry!)  

[anna]

 
Yes that's what is is. I know exactly what you mean, you must have done something, click or whipe something out. It happened to me also. The only thing I can't explain in proper PC-English, I think you wouldn't understand what I mean.

I will make an appeal for you

Is there someone here who could explain how Bluetoria gets her adresser on her pc back. Thank you!!

Anna

[bluetoria]

Yes that's what is is. I know exactly what you mean, you must have done something, click or whipe something out. It happened to me also. The only thing I can't explain in proper PC-English, I think you wouldn't understand what I mean.

I will make an appeal for you

Is there someone here who could explain how Bluetoria gets her adresser on her pc back. Thank you!!

Anna

Thanks anna  (but I think it's a lost cause!)

[lexi4]

I have always wondered why Alexei's illness didn't draw the two closer together. They both wanted a Romanov on the throne. They both loved him and many times an illness can bring families closer together. But it seems Alex shut her out.
I don't think Alex had a chance with Minny. Minny never really wanted N to marry Alex in the first place and only agreed because her husband was dying.

[BobAtchison]

I think Marie never bonded with Alix.  They were so very different in character.

Alix was quiet, shy and withdrawn.  She was serious and religious.  Beyond family affairs they had little to talk about.  I really blame Marie because it was her obligation to help Alix and she found it easier to just abandon (or throw) her 'to the wolves' and focus on own life.

She could have done much more and she didn't.  She allowed her circle to gossip, attack and subvert Alix at court - I am not sure why.  Alix knew she did this and it must have both hurt her and made her defensive at the same time.

[Finelly]

I don't know, Bob......

Alexandra closed up so quickly, and really seemed to refuse to allow people in to her tiny circle of comfort.  I would imagine that after a few times of being rebuffed, it was natural for Marie to give up.  

How many of us would continue to try to help and be friendly when rejected?

[divine_grace]

This is my two cents for this topic. Now, I have nothing against the Dowager Empress. But if she didn't bonded with her daughter in law but genuinely cares for her son the tsar and truly loves her grandchildren, don't you she would have made an effort of having a close relationship with OTMAA. Surely the tsarina couldn't give no for an answer if the Dowager Empress asks to take OTMAA to the museum (like the museum of arts in St. Petersburg) or something like that. 1  day of a week will surely have an effect  to OTMAA about their grandmother, and by then maybe the Tsarina would have gradually warmed up to her because I doubt the Tsarina was that cold to he mother in law. I just wondered why the Dowager Empress didn't make this much effort. Now we understand the Tsarina's reason for this=poor health, stress from the tsesareviches illness, shyness. Just my two cents

[Mgmstl]

This is my two cents for this topic. Now, I have nothing against the Dowager Empress. But if she didn't bonded with her daughter in law but genuinely cares for her son the tsar and truly loves her grandchildren, don't you she would have made an effort of having a close relationship with OTMAA. Surely the tsarina couldn't give no for an answer if the Dowager Empress asks to take OTMAA to the museum (like the museum of arts in St. Petersburg) or something like that. 1  day of a week will surely have an effect  to OTMAA about their grandmother, and by then maybe the Tsarina would have gradually warmed up to her because I doubt the Tsarina was that cold to he mother in law. I just wondered why the Dowager Empress didn't make this much effort. Now we understand the Tsarina's reason for this=poor health, stress from the tsesareviches illness, shyness. Just my two cents

Sometimes in these family situations, you are forced into positions, that when you look at them are not the best to be in, as motives can be misconstrued.

I think that Marie should have been been more helpful and nurturing & guiding, and perhaps Marie tried, and was rebuffed by AF as SO MANY WERE...

I really used to like AF, but I find her tedious & terribly unsuitable for the role of an Empress Consort.   Her inability to adapt or adjust to the court, her religious ardor & fervour were more than a bit over the top, and I found myself sympathizing less with her as time went on.

She could only play the martyred wife & mother so long before it wears on you.   She also seemed a bit paranoid, and a bit deluded with her sense of her own rank.  

IMO  Marie also washed her hands of Alix and refused to try any further after a while.  You do that after you have been shut out, or told you aren't wanted.  AF was clinging and insecure, and chose her path.  She brooked no interference or opposition from those who got in her way.  Her Aunt Vicky had an interesting comment on AF's character at sometime right before her marriage, it was an insightful comment, on the mark, and not at all kind.  Actually it described AF to a "tee".  

I think in cases such as these no party is totally blamless or totally at fault.  There are equal amounts to go around.