Titles, orders, royal law, regalia & rituals of the Spanish monarchy

[darius]

San Froilan is the patron saint of Lugo (from where their title originates): Last Wednesday 5th October was San Froilan´s day. It seems they chose this name as a tribute to Lugo.

[Marlene]

Oooh, thanks Lucien.

BTW, wikipedia says Elena's official style is 'HRH The Infanta Elena'.

I wonder, does anyone have any info on the names of the two princesses? What are their full names, and why were they called such?

Wikipedia is not an official source of information ... anyone can write a Wikipedia entry ...

If you take a look at the official govt site for the Spanish royal house, you will see that Elena is styled as HRH Infanta Doña Elena of Spain.  She was given the title Duchess of Lugo when she married.  Her husband has no title although it is not unusual to refer to Elena and Jaime as the duchess and duke of Lugo in English.  But one would never style Jaime as duke of Lugo.

Infanta means child  ... it is the equivalent of Princess.

[Marlene]

Back to the girls.

In Holà! magazine the couples are often referred to as the Duques de Lugo/ Palma de Mallorca in the same way as Andrew and Fergie were the Duques de York. It's
certainly more convenient way of doing the story than referring to them as the duchess of Lugo and her husband Jaime....

Maybe this is why the confusion has arisen, as popular magazines are not interested in the legal niceties!

There is a difference here .. Sarah became the duchess of York and HRH (and the rank of princess) when she married.   It would be totally incorrect in either English nor Spanish to refer to Jaime as the duke of Lugo ... but with his wife, of the Duques of Lugo.

It should be noted that both titles - Lugo and Palma de Mallorca are not hereditary, and return to the Spanish crown when the Infantas are deceased.  Their children will have no rights to the titles.  This also applies to the King's two sisters' ducal titles, Badajoz and Soria.  However,  Margarita's son will inherited her other dukedom - Hernani.

[umigon]

Absolutely true, Marlene, because the Dukedom of Hernani was naturally inherited by Margarita, from the branch of the Infante Don Sebastián Gabriel (I can't remember exactly from whom). The Dukedoms of Badajoz, Soria, Lugo and Palma de Mallorca were created for their current holders.

[Prince_Lieven]

Wikipedia is not an official source of information ... anyone can write a Wikipedia entry ...

I beg forgiveness Marlene. I merely mentioned what Wikipedia said, I did not say I was going to base a book on what it said.

[bell_the_cat]

There is a difference here .. Sarah became the duchess of York and HRH (and the rank of princess) when she married.   It would be totally incorrect in either English nor Spanish to refer to Jaime as the duke of Lugo ... but with his wife, of the Duques of Lugo.

Hi Marlene!

That's more or less what I meant. I wanted to suggest that the press had (incorrectly) transferred the british "Duques de" title to the spanish princesses - merely for the sake of convenience.

[Marlene]

Absolutely true, Marlene, because the Dukedom of Hernani was naturally inherited by Margarita, from the branch of the Infante Don Sebastián Gabriel (I can't remember exactly from whom). The Dukedoms of Badajoz, Soria, Lugo and Palma de Mallorca were created for their current holders.

The Hernani dukedom was created for Don Manfredo Borbon, who descended from Sebastian.  The title was created by royal decree in 1914.  Manfredo died in 1979, and it he wanted the title to go to Margarita - and this was decided in 1981.  Manfredo was the first Duke of Hernani.

[Marlene]

I beg forgiveness Marlene. I merely mentioned what Wikipedia said, I did not say I was going to base a book on what it said.

You need to go beyond the Internet for information -- the internet is not the end all and be all for research.  Remember, Google is a search engine, not a research engine.  You cannot google your way through life.

[Prince_Lieven]

You need to go beyond the Internet for information -- the internet is not the end all and be all for research.  Remember, Google is a search engine, not a research engine.  You cannot google your way through life.

No need for the lecture Marlene, I assure you, I would not still be in school if I thought I could 'google' my way through life.

Sadly, not all of us can personally hob-nob with are favourite royals like you.

[Marlene]

No need for the lecture Marlene, I assure you, I would not still be in school if I thought I could 'google' my way through life.

Sadly, not all of us can personally hob-nob with are favourite royals like you.

Well,  I hope you will learn better research skills while you are in school  -- using search engines won't help you write better term papers.

I don't hob nob with royals on a daily basis, let alone a monthly basis

[Prince_Lieven]

Your concern for my education is touching, my dear! Don't worry about the term papers though - our education system is slightly different.

[Marlene]

Your concern for my education is touching, my dear! Don't worry about the term papers though - our education system is slightly different.

Don't ever call me, my dear.  Ever.  Thank you.  I presume that your educational system does require the writing of papers that require research.  Here in the US, the papers are called term papers, usually due at the end of a term.  

[Prince_Lieven]

My friend, we do not have specific 'term papers' - it is at the discretion of the teacher entirely. Our final exams require the writing of essays in history, England and Irish, if that is what you mean.

[Marlene]

My friend, we do not have specific 'term papers' - it is at the discretion of the teacher entirely. Our final exams require the writing of essays in history, England and Irish, if that is what you mean.

Papers are separate from the exams ... it might be different now - but usually, one had to write several papers for different classes .during a semester (and there are 2 semesters each year) - and there also would be a mid-term exam and a final exam, and a final paper.

[Prince_Lieven]

No, that does not happen here. Papers are not 'official' in any way. Teachers may issue essays, but there are no papers separate to exams.