Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters  (Read 21955 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2005, 06:43:03 PM »
Thanks for starting this thread. I hope it will take the AN traffic away from mine.

As for Mathilde's comments, I will not call her a liar, but after all, she was 95 years old and had not really ever seen Anastasia in real life enough to know her. Just saying the eyes remind her of Nicky means nothing. A lot of people have the same color eyes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2005, 06:46:28 PM »
So, a rather theatrical old lady who had no reason to know the REAL Anastasia and met the "pretender" only once is credible? Who is this "we" you are constantly refering to, by the way ?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2005, 06:47:11 PM »
Quote
Thanks for starting this thread. I hope it will take the AN traffic away from mine.

As for Mathilde's comments, I will not call her a liar, but after all, she was 95 years old and had not really ever seen Anastasia in real life enough to know her. Just saying the eyes remind her of Nicky means nothing. A lot of people have the same color eyes.


You are telling us that Mathilde didn't know Anastasia.  How do you know this?  Please, give a source.  And, you added about Mathilde  telling someone that  AA's eyes were the same as Nicholas II.  Who did she tell?  Again, please, give a source.

To be fair with Mathilde, evidently she must have said something more in the half hour interview with Proteau if this is where the statement about AA's blue eyes originated.   Anyone have more on this interview?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2005, 06:53:25 PM »
Quote
So, a rather theatrical old lady who had no reason to know the REAL Anastasia and met the "pretender" only once is credible? Who is this "we" you are constantly refering to, by the way ?



So far "we"  involves, myself, Annie and Robert.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2005, 06:55:11 PM »
How do you know she did ? It is common sense that a former "intime" of Nicholas' would not be privy to the private world of the Imperial Family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robert_Hall »
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Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2005, 07:09:20 PM »
I'm sorry Robert, I don't understand the question.

Are you asking how do I know M. K.  said she believed AA was GD Anastasia?  It was on camera and on tape in a television studio in France.  Does it make a difference if the woman was 20 or 95?  Of course it can.  Some people lose their memory at my age while others like my grandmother, who died at 96, had a better memory than I ever had.  I suppose you'd have to see/hear the interview to make up your own mind.  I, personally, have not seen nor heard it.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2005, 07:12:29 PM »
How I know Mathilde didn't know Anastasia very well: One, there is no story of them ever meeting in any book. Also, considering that she was her father's former MISTRESS it's not likely she was a frequent visitor to the palace! Even if she did come, at some party, consider that the family was very private so the children were not commonly seen by all. And you had to be 16-17 to attend grown up parties. By the time Anastasia was that age, sadly, she was in captivity and no one saw her.

Also, if Mathilde was 95, that would have made the real Anastasia 65, and not looking much like she did at 15, the last time anyone outside captivity saw her! Much too old to judge by then.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2005, 07:16:53 PM »
I am questioning the woman's credibilty in identifying a woman she never knew as a little girl. The ballerina was a known courtesan of at least 3 grand dukes, I hardly think  she would have been welcomed into the confines of Tsarkoe Selo. Especially with Alexandra's known proclivities.
Also,  a check of the mosr current and also thorough bio on the lady "Imperial Dancer" by Coryne Hall  also indicates they never met. [the real Anastasia, that is, as a child].
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2005, 07:18:44 PM »
Another who believed:

Crown Princess Celicie of Germany, wife of Crown Prince Wilhelm, son of the Kaiser

Cecile was the daughter of Anastasia Mikhailovich, the only sister of Sergei and Sandro and the other Mikhailovichi, who had been close to the IF. But consider that Cecile was born in 1886, and married off at age 18 in 1904, moved to Germany when Anastasia was only 3! So it's not like they grew up together! And she only made infrequent visits to Russia, when she did, a young child distant cousin was not her priority. Because of the war. Cecile didn't return to Russia after 1913 when AN was only 12. So I hardly think she knew her well enough to be a judge!

Besides, Cecile and Wilhelm both became rather eccentric after the war and the loss of the power and dynasty they had hoped to claim one day.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2005, 07:21:41 PM »
Another cousin who for awhile claimed her:

Xenia Georgevna, daughter of George Mikhailovich. She was Anastasia's age and they did see each other as children, about twice a year, and not every year. She had not seen her since she was over 10, I don't think. If I am not mistaken, though Xenia never officially denounced her, she did withdrawl her support and ignored AA after the 1930's.

Then there's Gleb Botkin. And you know I think he, being a journalist, may have been in it for a good story. We will never know, he's dead and can't tell us.


Offline Arleen

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2005, 07:37:02 PM »
Gleb Botkin was a true believer for all of his life.  Just ask his son-in-law Richard Schweitzer, he would be glad to tell you his views and in fact has on another thread.

..Arleen

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2005, 08:27:09 PM »
Annie,  I am not into all this information about AA, since I never was an AA follower,  as you and others are/were.  Please,  give me sources and pages so when I have time, I can look up the source and see what you've mention, discover who some of these people are/were and more,  if  there is more.

Thanks.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2005, 08:31:36 PM »
Quote
... [ in part]...
Another cousin who for awhile claimed her:

Xenia Georgevna, daughter of George Mikhailovich. She was Anastasia's age and they did see each other as children, about twice a year, and not every year. She had not seen her since she was over 10, I don't think. If I am not mistaken, though Xenia never officially denounced her, she did withdrawl her support and ignored AA after the 1930's.
...


I have a lot of cousins and with many I have small personal stories which only we know.  Did AA tell Xenia one of those stories or was it something else since you are indicating that she believed AA was GD Anastasia?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2005, 08:34:43 PM »
Quote
Another who believed:

Crown Princess Celicie of Germany, wife of Crown Prince Wilhelm, son of the Kaiser

Cecile was the daughter of Anastasia Mikhailovich, the only sister of Sergei and Sandro and the other Mikhailovichi, who had been close to the IF. But consider that Cecile was born in 1886, and married off at age 18 in 1904, moved to Germany when Anastasia was only 3! So it's not like they grew up together! And she only made infrequent visits to Russia, when she did, a young child distant cousin was not her priority. Because of the war. Cecile didn't return to Russia after 1913 when AN was only 12. So I hardly think she knew her well enough to be a judge!

Besides, Cecile and Wilhelm both became rather eccentric after the war and the loss of the power and dynasty they had hoped to claim one day.


Why did she believe AA was GD Anastasia?

When did she meet AA?

Source please.

And, thanks  for all the posts.  It's getting us off to a very nice start.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anna Anderson and Her Supporters
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2005, 08:39:08 PM »
Grand Duke Andrei Vladimirovich

Lili von Dehn

Tatiana Botkin Melnik

Felix Dassel

Zenaida Tolstoy

Marianne Nilov, widow of the Commander of the Standart

Princess Martha of Sweden, Crown-Princess of Norway

George Romanovsky, Duke of Leuchtenberg

General Max Hoffmann

Prince Sigismund of Prussia (a first cousin)

Prince Frederick of Saxe-Altenburg

Princess Xenia Georgievna


Tentatively:

Admiral Papa-Federov ("If she would only speak Russian, I would acknowledge her on the spot")

Alexis Volkov ("If I now say that it is she, and others later claim the reverse, where would I be then?")

Alexandra Tegleva-Gilliard
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